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Archiver > AZORES > 2001-08 > 0996678902


From: Ruy Cardoso <>
Subject: [AZORES-L] Re: Cruz surname
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:15:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <200108011300.f71D0KF10459@lists5.rootsweb.com>


Hi, Doug.

I have a couple of thoughts, hopefully not too
pedantic, about your reference to a "real" surname and
also more particularly about the name da Cruz.

First, about "real" surnames: my mother has a first
cousin whose last name is Fragata and whose children's
last names are Fragata. Let me give you one short
line of descent that leads to this cousin, with the
first name in each line being the child of the couple
in the preceding line:

Manoel Francisco Branco = Antonia Maria Fragata
Manoel Francisco Branco = Rosa Maria Martela
Alexandre Francisco Branco = Maria Rosa Malhoa
Joao Maria Branco = Lusitana Pereira Eiras
(Mom's Cousin) Fragata

So can we call my mother's cousin's last name of
Fragata "real" even though the preceding four
generations of males used Branco on most of the
records I have? I expect that cousin Fragata and his
children feel that it is quite real.

Note also the use of Fragata as the wife's last name
in the very first line in the descent above (it shows
up on one record I have; there are others that just
refer to her as Antonia Maria). Does that change the
answer about whether Fragata is a real name?

One could even ask the same question about Branco: is
it a real last name, or is it a mere alcunha? How
about if it persists for four generations, as in the
above descent?

The definition of a real name is just not so clear cut
as all that, and I have personally stopped referring
to any last name as "real", although convenience of
course often dictates assigning one name as "the" last
name in a database when multiple names are used by the
same person in different records.

Second, about the name "da Cruz": in checking my
Buarcos baptism data base, I find the name as the last
name of the father (literally, the last name shown for
the person on the record) on 143 baptisms. Of those
143, only 27 (19%) also have another name of the sort
we usually call a surname preceding the "da Cruz",
usually Correa but sometimes Simoes or Rodrigues.

Of the other 116, 100 also have a legible name for the
paternal grandfather. Of those 100, 81 also have a
last name of "da Cruz" without an accompanying more
traditional surname; the others have what we might
more traditionally call last names (Ribeiro or Amaral,
for instance).

Further, there are at least some instances -- perhaps
only a couple -- where, say, a Manoel da Cruz and his
wife show up as paternal grandparents on a baptism
record naming Antonio da Cruz and his wife as parents,
and with that same Antonio da Cruz and his wife later
showing up as paternal grandparents themselves. In
other words, there are strings of records where the
name da Cruz looks like a surname for three
generations rather than just two. To my mind, getting
passed on this way is a reasonable test of whether a
surname is "real" or not.

Don't get me wrong; I also have 122 baptisms where the
father's name has "da Cruz" *followed* by another more
typical last name or alcunha, and I agree with you
that many religious names are somehow less real than
more typical surnames (I'm thinking particularly of
names like da Encarnacao, da Piedade, or the
ever-popular de Jesus). But "da Cruz" seems to
function like a real last name in many cases, sort of
like "da Silva", and I would put it in a different
category, at least based on the records I am most
familiar with. I would probably also put "dos Santos"
right with "da Cruz".

Finally, there is no question that the names Cruz,
Santos, da Cruz, and dos Santos function very much as
surnames here in the US.

Ruy


> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:15:55 -0700
> From: Doug da Rocha Holmes <>
> To:
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-L] Cruz surname
>
> Dear Bethany,
>
> I have a person in my database born about 1700 named
> Manuel Silveira da Cruz. So I believe there is a
> good chance you are right about Silveira being what
> the S. stands for. And if so, you are also right
> that Silveira is the real surname.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Doug


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