AZORES-L Archives

Archiver > AZORES > 2001-08 > 0996703822


From: "Shirley Allegre" <>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-L] Re: Family Information
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:10:22 -0700
References: <200108010654.f716siN25200@sm0101.promedia.net>


Oh jeez ! ! ! If you people are going to start another argument, would you
PLEASE do it privately. There are some of us that would like to work on
genealogy instead of reading about your differences of opinion.
Shirley

----- Original Message -----
From: SARAH SEIDERMAN (by way of Doug da Rocha Holmes <>)
<>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:51 PM
Subject: [AZORES-L] Re: Family Information


> To all on the Portugal list:
>
> I read Mr. Almeida's message to the list and was astounded that anyone
could
> take such a ridulous position as concerns sharing genealogical information
> FOR THE GOOD OF ALL. "Records from the islands" are not so easy to
> "extract" and even more difficult to compile into a cogent source for
> reliable research into past generations. You are totally out of line, Mr.
> Almeida. Why don't you just mind your own business and let the listeiros
> decide what they will or will not do with their personal information??
You
> do not display the proper attitude in this matter at all.
>
> If you are aiming your remarks at Doug da Rocha Holmes, you are going to
be
> challenged by a great number of listeiros who are aware of and very much
> appreciate his excellent work on behalf of so many of us. Why don't you
> name the individual you are warning us about? Or are you afraid that you
> will be asked to prove your insulting claim in a court of law?
>
> Sarah Seiderman
> San Diego, CA
>
> ----------
> >From: Doug da Rocha Holmes <>
> >To:
> >Subject: [PORTUGAL-L] Re: Family Information
> >Date: Tue, Jul 31, 2001, 11:12 PM
> >
>
> > At 09:13 PM 7/31/2001 , Joseph Almeida wrote:
> >>Currently there is a reference to providing
> >>information for a book that a list member is
> >>composing. The request is not uncommon, but is not
> >>necessary. I urge all listers to carefully consider
> >>such moves, especially the new people to genealogy.
> >>Very often the information you end up cheerfully and
> >>willingly provide to others, will not end up the way
> >>you hope it would. Many times it ends up being sold
> >>to others. If the records from the islands are being
> >>extracted properly you will never need to provide
> >>further information. Always BEWARE of such requests.
> >>Joe Almeida
> >
> > Who Mr. Almeida is referring to is obviously me and my request today for
> > people interested in ensuring their families are not omitted from my
future
> > Terceira and Pico village books.
> >
> > But there are laws in the U.S. which protect people again such
slanderous
> > statements and that is precisely what this is. In a private message to
me
> > about a month or two ago, he stated he "knew" I took information from
> > people and resold it. Now he says it publicly. Well, I am very happy he
> > made this claim in public so as to put an end to this vicious and false
> assertion.
> >
> > I don't know for certain who started it, but think it could have been
one
> > of his pals on this list named Chubb, who mentioned in April of this
year
> > that someone (not directly naming me, but everyone knew to whom was
being
> > referred) that this very thing had been done. I stated back then that
such
> > a thing is so amazingly ridiculous that the concept is almost funny. Who
> > would be so stupid as to want to purchase "data" from anyone when that
data
> > is simply a list of names and dates?
> >
> >
> > Since nobody has ever requested such information from me, and I would
never
> > even attempt to sell information in that form, this above lie is purely
> fictional.
> >
> > But to give the plaintiff a good chance to save face, I would very much
> > like to know a specific name to whom I sold such information. Of course,
>
> > since it never happened, that will be impossible to do.
> >
> > However, if this claim is based on the fact people often send me
> > information which I can then verify myself by looking at records
available
> > on microfilm or go down to the local county recorders office, etc, and I
> > then turned around and sold that information to someone, then the above
> > false statement is simply a twisting of the facts.
> >
> > For example, if someone once asked me if I had any information about
people
> > named Manuel Silveira and Maria Isabel (just making these up for an
> > example) who married in Ribeirinha, Pico in 1872 and had a son named
> > Alexandre Silveira on 4 July 1877, etc., they supplied this information
> > because it was necessary for me to know it in order to understand their
> request.
> >
> > Now, if I later found some other person looking for this same couple
> > married in 1872, I would likely have already put them in my database
after
> > the first request and to fill the order from this 2nd party, I would
> > translate or transcribe the record of marriage in 1872. That is
perfectly
> > normal and must be obvious to anyone. I would have to obtain the
document
> > of baptism for Alexandre born in 1877 (available only from Pico) in
order
> > to sell that information to anyone. If I did that, there is no reason in
> > the world why I should be prevented from doing that if a person was
> > interested in such a document.
> >
> > So maybe this false accusation is based on such a thing as that. If so,
I
> > must ask if anyone thinks that because any particular ancestors are
yours,
> > does that mean they are not the ancestors of another person? Can you
have a
> > lock on your own ancestors? Of course not. It is almost so pitifully
simple
> > that it shouldn't be necessary to spend the few seconds to write it.
> >
> > But back to Mr. Almeida and any of his friends who think like him. You
can
> > have any opinions you want about me or anyone else in the world. Freedom
of
> > thought is a basic concept and privilege in America. But freedom to
slander
> > and libel is NOT your right. You are trying to very hard, along with
Chubb,
> > to do everything possible to discredit me and thwart my genealogical
> > efforts. Not only are these done in very poor taste, but you are
fighting
> > the wrong person. I don't lay down and just die like you might wish.
When
> > someone attacks me in private, I have the option to ignore them. But
when
> > attacked in public, when genealogy is my sole source of income, you are
> > jeopardizing the welfare of my wife, my little son and myself.
> >
> > If I were becoming rich, as much as I would like that, I wouldn't
hesitate
> > to take you to court. But I can't afford a spare dime to fight you that
> > way. I can only do it by this public reply and appeal to the basic
goodness
> > and common sense of most on this list and most any other people who are
> > Portuguese and any other nationalities.
> >
> > You and your like are shameful examples of Portuguese and you don't
deserve
> > a moment more of my time.
> >
> > My regards to my many friends on this list who know me as an honest and
> > very skillful genealogist.
>
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > PS - interestingly, when such attacks on me occur, often my business
starts
> > to "boom" (greatly expand). So anyone wanting to publicly fight me like
> > this is always welcome to try. Maybe I can finally earn a decent living
> > from genealogy, instead of just scraping by from month to month!!
> >
> > Doug da Rocha Holmes www.dholmes.com/rocha2.html
> > Professional Genealogist (Açores & Madeira)
> > Specializing in the islands of Terceira & Pico
> > 1035 Starbrook Drive
> > Galt, California 95632 USA
>
>
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