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Archiver > FTST > 2002-01 > 1011177916


From: nick <>
Subject: [FTST] Re: Selecting datasets in FTST
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:45:16 +0000
References: <200201102108.g0AL8Eh02499@lists2.rootsweb.com>


Terry,
I don't view the ability of FTST boxes to show up to 9 items to be a
special, so much as an essential, feature. As far as I am concerned,
the box charts are simply one form (an irreplaceable form) of
communication of information, either to myself or to others. No other
format to my mind sets out the data in such a useful way as a box
chart.

In this regard, the use of primary tags represents one useful way of
choosing one particular tag event over any others that may exist.
However the use of primary tags to select not just the event but also
the tag type within a group is an extra functionality.

The flexibility of using a birth group which includes baptism and birth
tags can be useful but it also creates its own restrictions as indicated
by my desire to be able to show BOTH baptismal and birth information if
they exist. This surely does damage to Bob Velke's principal that TMG
makes no assumptions and leaves the choice of information representation
to the user (or have I badly paraphrased it?).

You asked me how I would like such a change towards increased
flexibility to be achieved. My initial thoughts are this: Birth and
Baptism tags should have first-level independence so that one may
specify a primary value as one particular value within any range of
alternative values of THAT tag. Thus one would end up with the capacity
to have a primary birth and a primary baptismal tag if the tag
information existed.

However the specific condition where there is no primary birth tag
could be used to select that baptismal information could be used to
guestimate age in TMG or to provide a false 'birth' date. I feel that
the capability to represent actual information should not be sacrificed
for the convenience of making useful (but false or unsubstantiated)
assumptions about age.

Nick Shelley


Terry wrote:
The problem we're dealing with in this thread is that the Box Charts,
once seen as being in the tightly formatted category with Pedigree
Charts, have enhanced capabilities in VCF ver. 2, shipped with FTST. Now
they can include up to 9 items, chosen from all the Tag Types in the
dataset. So they begin to achieve a bit of the flexibility of the
narrative style
reports. While it would certainly be possible include more elaborate
controls over what is allowed to be printed, I suspect that given the
limited space in such charts, which tends to limit the utility of
including lots of tags, most users would place higher priorities on
development of other desired enhancements.





> nick wrote:
>
> > Terry,
> > Thanks for your comments. However this configuration and the data
> > selection restriction it creates makes no sense to me.
>
> It's really a problem of conflicting objectives. Putting Baptism in the Birth Group is extremely useful for those many people for whom we cannot find birth records. I've been told that in some cultures it is common to find a baptism recorded in church records when there is no recorded of the birth itself. For cultures that practice infant baptism the baptism is a good proxy for a birth date. By putting both in the same group we are able then to have a "birth" date for these people show in the Picklist, Family and Tree views, etc. It's only in the box charts, and only for those who want to specify both events, that this is a problem.
>
> > There is already
> > a 'birth-group*' dataset option which can serve the same purpose; the
> > linking of 'Birth*' and 'Baptism*' datasets to the birth group just
> > undermines their usefulness.
>
> Yes, the Birth-group option will print either the birth or baptism record, whichever is primary. The Birth and Baptism options are not "linked," but in fact allow you to specifically choose which one to print. But the fact remains, only primary tags can be printed, otherwise there would be no way for the program to choose which of potentially dozens of non-primary tags to display. And, for the very good reason outlined above, the standard Baptism Tag is in the Birth Group, which allow only one to be primary.
>
> > Now if I want to express BOTH birth and baptism information on a chart,
> > I have to make a new tag, eg: 'baptised', which is not part of the birth
> > group. Using John Cardinal's utility, such a change is not hard,
>
> Yes, that is the way to do it.
>
> > BUT it
> > removes TMG's ability to show age, based on an individual's birth OR
> > baptism date.
>
> That's right, it can't work both ways at once.
>
> > Whether birth and baptism tags should be considered by
> > TMG as part of the birth group or not should be configurable within
> > TMG.
>
> How would you have this work? Say you have both a Birth and Baptism tag for an individual. You use your proposed new feature to move the Baptism tag so you can print it. In order to print it, you mark it primary. After creating the chart, you move it back to the Birth group. How does TMG/FTST know which of the two primary tags to leave as primary?
>
> > Now if I want to be able to show both birth and baptismal details AND
> > have a functioning age display for each person on the screen, I would
> > have to create an EXTRA 'baptised' tag per person.
>
> There's no need for an Extra tag -- if you have a valid Birth Tag, why do you need the Baptism tag in the Birth Group?

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