Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 1999-12 > 0945365410

From: John Ravilious <>
Subject: Re: Ancestry of Cuninghame of Craigends
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:30:10 -0500

Suzanne Doig wrote:
> On 9 Dec 1999 16:46:10 -0800, (John Ravilious)
> wrote:
> > I noted the Cuninghame connection, via the marriage (oft debated)
> >of Sir William Cuninghame, Earl of Carrick de jure uxoris, and Helen
> >Bruce, and concur with your acceptance of the argument that the
> >reversion of the Earldom to the crown in or before 1368 was related to
> >Helen Bruce's death [and King David II's designs] as opposed to the lack
> >of legitimate heirs.
> Yes, I have not seen any good *other* explanation of how William
> Cuninghame could be created Earl of Carrick, and then lose that title
> without rebelling. While the marriage may not be proven, it is surely
> the best-fit scenario.
> > 1) Given the portions of the ancestry shown for Campbell of
> > Loudoun and others, I was wondering if perhaps one of your
> > sources was the book Roberdeau Genealogy, by R. Buchanan
> > (1876)?
> No, I am not aware of this work - what is its scope? My source for the
> link to Campbell of Loudoun is Burke's Landed Gentry, 15th ed (1937) p
> 537, not the most reliable of works. I have been unable to establish
> the parentage of 'Sir John Campbell of Loudoun', whose daughter Giles
> married William Cuninghame of Craigends, mostly due to a lack of dates
> and number of possibilities.
> > 2) Due to my own connections to the Cuninghames of Craigends
> > (our branch uses the spelling Cunyngham), I have developed
> > additional information on several lines, including Campbell
> > of Loudoun, Montgomerie of Eglinton [_Agnes of the Isles_]
> > and others. I will forward same as soon as possible,
> >but please let me know if you are still seeking additional
> > information on other specific lines.
> I would be very interested to see any additional material that you can
> make available. My main sources for these charts have been CP, various
> Burke's publications, and posts to the newsgroup.
> On casting an eye quickly across my charts, I can see one big
> unsatisfactory link - Margaret Douglas, wife of Alexander Montgomery
> and mother of John Montgomery of Eaglesham (d.1401). I have this
> Margaret as a *second* illegitimate child of William, 1st Earl of
> Douglas and Margaret Stewart, Countess of Angus. There are
> chronological difficulties as well as a lack of hard evidence for
> Margaret's parentage.
> Suzanne
> * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
> Suzanne Doig - remove obvious from reply-to address

Thursday, Dec. 16, 1999

Hello Suzanne -

The book I referred to in my last post [Roberdeau Genealogy] was
published in 1876, and consists of two primary sections: (1) a
memorandum written or completed in 1740 by one Robert Cunyngham
[Cunningham], a descendant of James Cunningham of Ashinyards, younger
brother of the 4th Laird of Craigends, providing a genealogy as of that
date of the Earls of Glencairn, the Lairds of Craigends and his own
branch including his siblings and children down to that date; and (2)
the career of Daniel Roberdeau (1727-1795), his grandson and one-time
merchant, militia leader of the Pennsylvania Brigade and signer of the
Articles of Confederation, and the genealogy of his descendants and
those of his sister down to 1876.

The link with the Campbells of Loudoun is somewhat problematic, as
the Sir John Campbell of Killock is not elsewhere identified. A
genealogical history of Ayrshire by either Paterson or Robertson (I will
dig out the reference later) provides a connection, but indicates the
name John is an error: this is stated as actually being George Campbell,
a second son of Sir George Campbell of Loudoun (d. ca. 1492). The line
I have, from this source and Scots Peerage, is as follows:

1. Sir Colin Mor Campbell, lord of Loch Awe, k. 1296

1. Sir Neil Campbell (ancestor of the Lords Campbell, Dukes
of Argyll)
2. NN, a daughter, m. Angus Mor mac Donald
3. Sir Donald Campbell of Benderloch, m. Amabila

1. Sir Duncan Campbell of Red Castle, acq. Loudoun by
marriage; m. Susanna, dau. of Sir Reginald Crawford,
sheriff of Ayr, exe. 1307

1. Sir Andrew Campbell of Loudoun, sheriff of Ayr

1. Sir Hugh Campbell, d. after 1430

1. George Campbell, sheriff of Ayr; d. by 1484

1. Sir George Campbell, m. Elizabeth Stewart
[connection not yet found]

1. Sir George Campbell of Loudoun, 1492
m. daughter of Gilbert, 1st Lord Kennedy
and grandson of King Robert III (1390-1406)
[no such daughter found in Scots Peerage]

1. George Campbell, 2nd son: laird of

1. Giles [Egidia], m. William
Cuninghame, 2nd of Craigends

A gap I noticed in the table of ancestry for Dorothy Cuninghame,
was 'Agnes of the Isles', 1st wife of Sir John Montgomery, laird of
Eaglesham and Ardrossan ( 1428). Paul, in Scots Peerage, did not
draw any connection directly to the MacDonalds of the Isles, but this
has been done subsequently by others who have shown that she is Agnes,
or Annes, daughter of Donald mac Donald, Lord of the Isles (d. 1423) by
Margaret Leslie, heiress of Ross. Here is what I have:

1. Agnes [Annes] 'of the Isles', m. Sir John Montgomery; she d. before
March 1414 [issue: Alexander, 1st Lord Montgomery, and
Agnes/Anne, who m. Sir Robert Cuningham, parents of Alexander,
1st Earl of Glencairn]

2. Domnall or Donald mac Eoin mac Donald, Lord of the Isles 1387-1423
3. Margaret Leslie, heiress of Ross

4. Eoin mac Angus mac Donald, Lord of the Isles 1330-1387
5. Margaret Stewart
6. Sir Walter Leslie, d. 1382 (held to be Earl of Ross dju)
7. Euphemia of Ross, countess of Ross 1372-1394

8. Angus _Og_ mac Angus mac Donald, lord of Islay and Argyll, d. 1330
9. Agnes or Annes O'Cathan, of Ulster
10. King Robert II [Robert Stewart, Lord High Steward 1327-1371],
King of Scots 1371-1390
11. Euphemia Mure, d. before 1355
12. Sir Andrew Leslie
13. Mary Abernethy
14. William, Earl of Ross 1333-1372
15. Mary mac Donald [daughter of #8 and #9]

16. Angus _Mor_ mac Donald, lord of Islay, d. 1296
17. NN Campbell, dau. of Sir Colin _Mor_ Campbell
18. Guy O'Cathan, local lord in Ulster
20. Walter Stewart, Lord High Steward of Scotland, d. 1327
21. Marjory Bruce, dau. of King Robert I _the_ Bruce, d. 1316
22. Sir Adam Mure of Rowallan
23. Janet [Jean?] Mure, 2nd wife
24. Sir Norman Leslie
26. Sir Alexander Abernethy of Abernethy
28. Hugh, Earl of Ross 1323-1333
29. Maud Bruce, sister of King Robert I
30. same as 8
31. same as 9

More to follow - hope this helps. In the meantime, good luck and
good hunting.

So Fork Forward.John

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