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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-04 > 1080813179


From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <>
Subject: Re: POSSIBLE GATEWAY: FROM AFRICA TO EUROPE
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:52:59 -0700
References: <c57e4f24.0403141731.5b931209@posting.google.com> <40582A2C.1070409@interfold.com> <7004aa4b.0403171315.e1450fe@posting.google.com> <40591FC1.6080000@interfold.com> <7004aa4b.0403181400.cefedf7@posting.google.com> <4069B76B.5000405@interfold.com> <7004aa4b.0403301743.216e9787@posting.google.com> <Yfqac.16754$Ku3.7324@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com> <7004aa4b.0403311402.37df8950@posting.google.com> <BAIac.30928$0d.25045@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com> <7004aa4b.0404010237.6708eb70@posting.google.com>


Shawn Potter wrote:
> "Chris Bennett" <> wrote in message news:<BAIac.30928$>...
>
>>What you objected to was a statement that the Solomonic claim is
>>"unsupported and unsupportable".
>
>
> Chris,
>
> Why do you mistate my objection? I never questioned Todd's statement
> that the claimed descent is "unsupported." I questioned his statement
> that the claimed descent is "unsupportable"

As Chris pointed out earlier, and as I had in mind when I said
"unsupportable", there are virtually NO surviving records for the
1000+ (or so) year period from the time attributed to the Queen
of Sheba (who, by Solomon, is said to be mother of the line) to
about 300 AD. (From the text I quoted, "The real events in
Ethiopia's history before the present two millenia are lost in
the mists of antiquity, . . .") With no surviving evidence, by
definition, there can be no support.

> and his original statement
> that "The claims of the Aksumite rulers to descend from Solomon are of
> identical nature to the numerous claims of descent from Biblical
> figures (House of David, Noah), heroic figures (Priam, Hengist) and
> gods (Jupiter, Odin)."

And the claims of the Aksumites _are_ identical in nature to
these others, tracing through a thousand years of undocumented
connections to someone who became of cultural importance to the
people at a much later time. This, apparently, is the same basis
that Stuart Munro-Hay had for reaching his conclusion, which I
also had in mind when I made my statement (again, the text
earlier quoted):

"The origins of these legends hark back to some unknown time
after the conversion of the kingdom to Christianity in the reign
of king Ezana of Aksum in the fourth century AD, or in some cases
perhaps to an even earlier period when some Jewish traditions had
entered the country. Such legends had their political use in
providing pedigrees for national institutions. It was believed in
later times that the state offices from the king downwards were
descended from the company which had brought the Ark to Aksum
from Jerusalem (Budge 1922: 61). Doubtless the Christian priests,
searching for a longer pedigree for their religion to impress
pagans and unbelievers, would have been interested in developing
these tales which connected Ethiopia with Solomon and Sheba. The
Ethiopian kings themselves, anxious to acquire the prestige of
ancient and venerable dynastic ancestors, could scarcely have
hoped for a more august couple as their reputed progenitors."

Now keep in mind, I did not go as far as Monro-Hay. I did not
say it is untrue, per se. I said that it is similar/identical in
nature to various other genealogical claims that are almost
universally agreed to be so. I can't help it that this
similarity exists, nor the (obvious) logical conclusion to which
it leads. I can't help it that for a 1500 year period no data
that would distinguish this claimed descent from the others
survives. Contrary to what you have been stating here, I
explained the basis for doubting the descent, and I supplied
writing of a historian that has studied the question and likewise
took a skeptical view of the descent.

If you find fault with my comparison, you need to do more than
just say "how dare you" and call me a hypocrite. You need to
present some argument whereby the pedigree is dissimilar to the
others to which I compared it, and/or you need to come up with
some evidence that predates 300 AD that supports the descent.
Short of that, then the comparison and the conclusion to which it
must lead must stand.

taf

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