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Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2004-04 > 1080857495


From: (Shawn Potter)
Subject: Re: POSSIBLE GATEWAY: FROM AFRICA TO EUROPE
Date: 1 Apr 2004 14:11:35 -0800
References: <c57e4f24.0403141731.5b931209@posting.google.com> <40591FC1.6080000@interfold.com> <7004aa4b.0403181400.cefedf7@posting.google.com> <4069B76B.5000405@interfold.com> <7004aa4b.0403301743.216e9787@posting.google.com> <Yfqac.16754$Ku3.7324@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com> <7004aa4b.0403311402.37df8950@posting.google.com> <BAIac.30928$0d.25045@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com> <7004aa4b.0404010237.6708eb70@posting.google.com> <406BE67B.1020104@interfold.com>


"Todd A. Farmerie" <> wrote in message news:<>...
> Shawn Potter wrote:
> > "Chris Bennett" <> wrote in message news:<BAIac.30928$>...
> >
> >>What you objected to was a statement that the Solomonic claim is
> >>"unsupported and unsupportable".
> >
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > Why do you mistate my objection? I never questioned Todd's statement
> > that the claimed descent is "unsupported." I questioned his statement
> > that the claimed descent is "unsupportable"
>
> As Chris pointed out earlier, and as I had in mind when I said
> "unsupportable", there are virtually NO surviving records for the
> 1000+ (or so) year period from the time attributed to the Queen
> of Sheba (who, by Solomon, is said to be mother of the line) to
> about 300 AD. (From the text I quoted, "The real events in
> Ethiopia's history before the present two millenia are lost in
> the mists of antiquity, . . .") With no surviving evidence, by
> definition, there can be no support.
>
> > and his original statement
> > that "The claims of the Aksumite rulers to descend from Solomon are of
> > identical nature to the numerous claims of descent from Biblical
> > figures (House of David, Noah), heroic figures (Priam, Hengist) and
> > gods (Jupiter, Odin)."
>
> And the claims of the Aksumites _are_ identical in nature to
> these others, tracing through a thousand years of undocumented
> connections to someone who became of cultural importance to the
> people at a much later time. This, apparently, is the same basis
> that Stuart Munro-Hay had for reaching his conclusion, which I
> also had in mind when I made my statement (again, the text
> earlier quoted):
>
> "The origins of these legends hark back to some unknown time
> after the conversion of the kingdom to Christianity in the reign
> of king Ezana of Aksum in the fourth century AD, or in some cases
> perhaps to an even earlier period when some Jewish traditions had
> entered the country. Such legends had their political use in
> providing pedigrees for national institutions. It was believed in
> later times that the state offices from the king downwards were
> descended from the company which had brought the Ark to Aksum
> from Jerusalem (Budge 1922: 61). Doubtless the Christian priests,
> searching for a longer pedigree for their religion to impress
> pagans and unbelievers, would have been interested in developing
> these tales which connected Ethiopia with Solomon and Sheba. The
> Ethiopian kings themselves, anxious to acquire the prestige of
> ancient and venerable dynastic ancestors, could scarcely have
> hoped for a more august couple as their reputed progenitors."
>
> Now keep in mind, I did not go as far as Monro-Hay. I did not
> say it is untrue, per se. I said that it is similar/identical in
> nature to various other genealogical claims that are almost
> universally agreed to be so. I can't help it that this
> similarity exists, nor the (obvious) logical conclusion to which
> it leads. I can't help it that for a 1500 year period no data
> that would distinguish this claimed descent from the others
> survives. Contrary to what you have been stating here, I
> explained the basis for doubting the descent, and I supplied
> writing of a historian that has studied the question and likewise
> took a skeptical view of the descent.
>
> If you find fault with my comparison, you need to do more than
> just say "how dare you" and call me a hypocrite. You need to
> present some argument whereby the pedigree is dissimilar to the
> others to which I compared it, and/or you need to come up with
> some evidence that predates 300 AD that supports the descent.
> Short of that, then the comparison and the conclusion to which it
> must lead must stand.
>
> taf

Todd,

I have no responsibility to help you prove your point. If you and
others believe your declaration is true, perhaps it "must stand."
But, what does that mean?

Shawn

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