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From: Tim Powys-Lybbe <>
Subject: Re: CP Addition: Richard Pole's 1st marriage to Alice Stradling
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:40:11 +0100
References: <5cf47a19.0404011611.474a02b5@posting.google.com> <1f75cd994c.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <WQEbc.4037$4N3.627@newsfe1-win>


In message of 3 Apr, "An. Archer" <> wrote:

> Tim et al,
>
> Don't trust Testamenta Vetusta!
>
> I know from personal experience that it is full of mistakes. Always
> check the original references.

Perhaps you would care to re-read? I then got hold of a copy of the
will from the PRO, using Documents Online, as I told below.

> An.
>
>
>
> "Tim Powys-Lybbe" <> wrote in message
> news:...
> > In message of 2 Apr, (Douglas Richardson) wrote:
> >
> > > Margaret married before November 1487 Richard Pole (or Poole), K.G.
> > > (died 1504), of Ellesborough and Medmenham, Buckinghamshire, son and
> > > heir of Geoffrey Pole, Knt., by his 1st wife, Edith Saint John.
> >
> > Let's take the small error first: Geoffrey Poole was not a knight. In
> > Testamenta Vetusta, Vol I, p. 338, where an abstract of his will is
> > printed, he is called esquire. This is confirmed by CP Vol XIV, p. 567.
> >
> > Revisiting Testamenta Vetusta, his name is clearly spelt Poole and so
> > are the surnames of his sons Richard and Henry. But this is only an
> > abstract of Geoffrey's will so I turned to the official transcript, but
> > not the original will of course, available on the London PRO site of
> > Documents On Line:
> > http://www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk/

Thsi is what I did as I knew Testamenta Vetusta was only an abstract...

> > Geoffrey is there spelt Galfridus Poole and the same is used for his
> > sones later in the will. Though I did note that some scribe had written
> > in the margin "Galfridi Pole".

This is what was written on the transcript of the will in the PRO.

I can put a copy of the relevant parts on a website. Or you can
download the will yourself?

> >
> > The most prominent member of that family was doubtless the cardinal,
> > whom I was indeed educated to know as Cardinal Pole. So I was
> > surprised to see in the book of the Oxfordshire Visitation of 1566 the
> > following entry on page 96 for the east window of the Founders chamber
> > of Maudelyn Coledge (sic) a description of the arms of the cardinal with
> > over it:
> >
> > poole Cardanall
> >
> > Further this is the spelling used of the family in the various
> > visitation records, Sussex 1530 & 1633-4, p. 89 and Bedfordshire of
> > 1566, 1582 and 1634, p. 52.
> >
> > Finally I was intrigued to find in Smyth's "Lives of the Berkeleys" Vol
> > II, p. 274, that the same spelling of "Poole" was still being used in
> > the 1620s when Smyth wrote this, though he may just have been copying a
> > document of 1556.
> >
> > My conclusion is that the almost universal practice of the time of this
> > Poole family is that they spelt it thus. When and why the modern form
> > of "Pole" came in I do not know.
> >
> > --
> > Tim Powys-Lybbe
> > For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
>
>

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

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