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From: (Douglas Richardson)
Subject: Re: CP Addition: Richard Pole's 1st marriage to Alice Stradling
Date: 7 Apr 2004 01:03:49 -0700
References: <5cf47a19.0404052115.45e1f23@posting.google.com> <cbf7689b4c.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>


Dear Tim ~

Today I reviewed a variety of records pertaining to the family of
Geoffrey Pole (or Poole) (died 1479), of Medmenham, Buckinghamshire
found on the online PROCAT catalog (http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk). I
found five records pertaining to Geoffrey Pole himself, five records
pertaining to his son, Sir Richard Pole (died 1504), and three records
pertaining to Sir Richard's widow, Margaret Plantagenet, Countess of
Salisbury. The records (which I have posted below) range in date from
the 1430's to the 1530's. All thirteen records spell the family
surname Pole. I found no instances of any of these people as Poole.
I trust this answers your question as to when the family began using
the spelling Pole for their surname.

Included among the records appears to be a reference to an inquisition
post mortem for Geoffrey Pole dated 19 Edward IV which refers to him
as "esquire." If so, this would be good evidence that he was not
knighted at the time of his death as stated by Macnamara. All the
same, I believe it would be helpful to examine both the inquisition
and the Corston deeds cited by Macnamara.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

E-mail:

- - - - - - - - -
RECORDS OF THE POLE FAMILY:

E 210/9238:
Appointment by Geoffrey Pole of attorneys to take possession of lands
in the lordship of Pebidiauk: (Pembr.)
Date: 15 Hen. VI

E 210/4142:
John, Viscount Beaumont, and Katherine, Duchess of Norfolk, his wife
to John, Abbot of Medmenham, and Geoffrey Pole, esquire : Demise,
indented, of one third of the manor of Medmenham. Endorsed : Final
concord between Thomas Hoo and Richard Leukenore, esquires, and
others, complainants, and John, Duke of Norfolk, Elizabeth his wife,
and Henry Bradfield, clerk, deforciants, conveying to the complainants
and the heirs of Thomas Boket the manors of Upton St.
Date: 37 Hen. VI. / 8 Edw. IV.

C 140/69/11:
Pole, Geoffrey, esq Bucks
19 Edw IV

C 4/26/15:
[-], son and heir of Elizabeth [Nevill], Lady Abergavenny and George
Leyntale v. Geoffrey Pole: bill Date of document after 1461
Date Range: 1462 Jan 1 - 1500 Dec 31

E 210/5176:
George Nevill, esquire, son and heir of Elizabeth Nevill late of the
wife of Edward Nevill, knight to Geoffrey Pole, esquire : Fine: being
a conveyance of one-third of the manor of Medmenham. Bucks.
Date: 49 Hen.VI.

C 1/67/36:
Henry Danvers v. Richard Pole: Custody of Edward Stradlyng,
complainant's ward, son of John, son of Edmund Stradlyng.: London.

C 1/141/77:
Thomas Hylle and others, tenants of Sir Richard Pole, knight, in Long
Wittenham. v. John Pulker, bailiff and farmer of the lordship, son of
Watkin Pulker, farmer of the parsonage of Wittenham.: Ejection of
complainants from tenements taken of dame Alice, duchess of Suffolk,
of the duke of Suffolk, and of the earl of Lincoln.

E 101/72/4/1109:
Parties to Indenture: Indentures retaining the following to serve in
the king's invasion of France. Richard Pole, kt.
Date: 7 Henry VII

E 150/5/3:
Pole, Richard, knight: Buckingham
Date: 20 Henry VII.

E 326/1494:
Demise by Henry Colet, knight, alderman of London, Robert Brudenell,
Thomas Bradbury, and William Gery to Richard Pole, knight, and Ralph
Asshton, of the manor of Ellesburgh (Ellesborough). Bucks.
Date: 16 April, 8 Henry VII

E 41/206:
Indenture between Margaret countess of Salisbury and Henry Pole
knight, lord Montague, her son and heir of the one part, and George
Nevile knight, lord Abergavenny (Bergevenny) of the other part:
Agreement to a marriage between Henry Pole aforesaid and Jane Nevile,
one of the daughters and heirs of lord Abergavenny, and settlement
therefor.
Date: 8 July 7 Hen VIII

E 314/79:
Pole, Margaret, countess of Salisbury [attainted 1540]: Accounts and
legal papers including articles of agreement with Lord Bergavenny on
the marriage of her son to his daughter.
Date: Hen. VIII

E 326/6366:
Parties: Margaret countess of Salisbury, and Henry Pole, knight, lord
Montagugh, her son & John Monson and Wylliam his son; Place or
Subject: The manor of Welton near Louth (Nexte Lowthe). County: [Linc]
Date: 24 Hen VIII


Tim Powys-Lybbe <> wrote in message news:<>...
> In message of 6 Apr, (Douglas Richardson) wrote:
>
> > In answer to your request for information regarding the will of
> > Geoffrey Pole/Poole, I can provide the following particulars. The
> > will commences "In the name of God Amen ... I Geoffrey Poole of
> > Northend in the parish of Medmenham in county Buckingham, Esquire."
>
> Thanks. At least it confirms that Testamenta Vetusta got his Esquire
> right.
>
> > The will is dated 12 October 1478, and proved 21 March [year not given
> > but 1478/9 is the correct date]. In his will, he refers to his wife,
> > Bone; his daughter, Eleanor [Alianor]; and his two sons, Richard and
> > Henry. The will is divided into two parts both with the same date,
> > one written in Latin and one written in English. Neither the second
> > part of the will, nor the probate clause mentions Geoffrey's social
> > rank. The probate clause merely states that the above will was
> > probated 21 March [1478/9] and that administration of the estate was
> > granted to Richard Alfred, one of the executors named in the will.
> > There is an indication that "power" was "reserved," presumably in
> > favor of the other executor, Morgan Kidwelly.
> >
> > On the second page of the will (11-12 lines from the bottom), the
> > testator specifically refers to his two sons as "Richard Pole" and
> > "Henry Pole." This suggests that the names, Poole and Pole, were
> > entirely interchangeable in this period.
>
> Thanks for this transcript of the transcript of the original
> (presumably now lost? These days they keep the originals but I wonder
> if they kept them in those times?).
>
> > There is nothing in this will which would preclude Geoffrey Pole from
> > having been knighted between the date of the will and his death date.
>
> Agreed. But there is nothing to say that he was so knighted,
> particularly if he was on his death-bed, as his will-writing would
> indicate.
>
> > Consequently, if Macnamara has copied the Corston deeds correctly
> > involving Geoffrey's widow, Bone, it would appear that Geoffrey Pole
> > was knighted shortly before his death. I concur with you that the
> > Corston deeds should be consulted.
>
> I look forward to this.
>
> Sounds like the jury is still out and the only evidence so far has him
> to be plain Esquire.
>
> > With respect to the spelling of the surname, all the records
>
> Were these the records themselves or transcriptions or abstracts of the
> records?
>
> > I found which refer to Geoffrey Pole's son, Richard, in the period,
> > 1484-1490, spell Richard's surname as Pole, not Poole. As such, I
> > presume that the prevalent spelling of the surname after 1484 was
> > Pole.
>
> But not prevalent in the various visitation records of 80 to 120 years
> later, that is the curious matter. It may be that people remote from
> the family spelt the name differently to those close to the family?
>
> Does anyone know of any documents written by cardinal Reginald Poole in
> which he names himself? I have looked for his will but can't find it.
> Nor can I find on the PRO site the wills of Richard, Reginald's father,
> or of Richard's eldest son Henry.

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