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From: "Patricia Junkin" <>
Subject: Re: Gilbert fitzReinfrid son and heir..Further..
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:21:32 -0500


Will and All,
First let me give the complete Clerkenwell transcription from Dugdale's
Monasticon, p. 806
Hospital of ST. JOHN OF JERUSALEM, near CLERKENWELL, LONDON, p. 799. Vol V.
Pt 2 can be found at:
monasticmatrix.usc.edu/monasticon/

I must admit that this discussion has left me with more questions than
solutions.
I did not find that "Cospatricius comes filius Cospatricij" (second) earl of
Dunbar was the same as the line of Cospatric the King's Theng, occ. 1086,
of Thoresby, N.R.Yorkshire, Land of Count Alan (6N 89 DB) and of East
Tanfield and Dalton, N.R.Yorkshire, which he held before and after 1086.
[2002 From: malinda <> Subject: Re: Durham Liber
Vitae-Gospatrick To:

Hodgson's History of Northumberland gives
1.Walthoef sr. earl of N'berland c.a. 969
2. Ucthred m.
1) Ecgfrida (her dower out of the lands of the see of Dur'm were Bremetum,
Skirningehelm, Elton, Carltun, Heacliff & Heseldene-she returned to her
father
2) Sigen
3) Elfgiva by whom he had:
a. Aldgitha, princess of Elgiva m. Maldred
b. Cospatric retired to Scotland with Edgar Aetheling in 1068; purchased
earldom of N'mbetland from William the Conqueror but was deproved in 1072
when he returned to Scotland

Perhaps not as scholarly as necessary but seems to be a vetted posting on
the Appleby Castle website[http://www.orme.org.uk/appleby.html] posts this:
Gospatric, son of Orm, was fined for surrendering Appleby Castle to William
the Lion, King of Scotland, in 1174.
The fine appears in Henry II's Pipe Roll for Everwicher (Yorkshire) from
1176. Gospatric son of Orm, was fined 500 marks, Robert son of Coleman 10
marks, and William Breton of Colby 40 shillings.
Gospatric's father was the Baron Orm of Kendal and his mother was Gunilda,
daughter of Gospatric the Earl of Dunbar. Gospatric, Earl of Dunbar, was
married (second marriage) to Ada - the daughter of William the Lion, King of
Scotland. It is easy to understand why there was no attempt defend the
castle against the Scots.
The event was recorded by Jordan Fautsome in Norman-French
Ne fist a cele feiz a Robert nul contraire
Ains alad a Appelbi, la endrait tint sun lire.
N'i aveit nule gent: si fud tut desguarni.
Gospatric le fiz Norm, un veil Engleis fluri
Estiant li cunstable; si cris tost merci.
...
He (King William the Lion) did not harm Robert
But went to Appleby; there he took his march
There were no people, so he took it quickly.
Gospatric the son of Orme, an old Englishman with grey hair
Was the Constable; he soon cried mercy.
The Barons of Kendal

Guillaume Ive Raoul de Taillebois was "left hand brother" to Fulke, Count of
Anjou. Whether he was born out of wedlock, or whether he was a half-brother
from his mothers previous marriage is uncertain, but the result was that Ivo
was not in a position to inherit and went with William to England. It has
been suggested that he was related to William's father, therefore to
William. Ivo was given lands in Lancaster and became the Baron of Kendall,
he was also made Earl of Holland in Lincolnshire. Ivo married Lucia,
daughter of Thorold, Lord of Spalding and Count of Mercia. After Lucia's
death, Ivo married a daughter of King Eadgar of Mercia, their son was Eldred
(sometimes spelled Elftred).
Eldred became the 2nd Baron of Kendall and married Edgitha who was the
granddaughter of King Ethelred II. Their first son, Ketel, became the 3rd
Baron of Kendall; the other sons were Gilbert and William. Ketel married
Christiana and they had a son Orm who became the 4th Baron of Kendall. Orm's
first wife died and he then married Gunilda, daughter of the Earl of Dunbar.
They had two sons Gospatric Ormson (or FitzOrme) 5th Baron of Kendall and
Robert Ormson (or FitzOrme). Robert married Christina, daughter of Anketin
de Meynwarin.

Pat
----------
>From:
>To: ,
>Subject: Re: Gilbert fitzReinfrid son and heir..Further..
>Date: Tue, Nov 29, 2005, 4:08 PM
>

> In a message dated 11/29/05 7:27:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> << Could the "vill called Hoton" be the same as in the following:
> Hotone super Ribill mentioned in the Clerkenwell charter made sometime
> between 1184 and 1202 of Robert filii Bernardi which mentions a William de
> Lancaster senior and junior and Helewisa and Hugo de Morville and is
> witnessed by among others Roberto de Lancaster and Gilberto filio Rogeri,
> filio Rainfridi............. >>
>
> Could you post this ? I would like to see exactly what it says.
> Thanks
> Will


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