GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives

Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2006-09 > 1157400182


From:
Subject: Re: Menteith of Kerse: a reexamination
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:03:02 EDT


Monday, 4 September, 2006


Hello All,

Following is the promised pedigree (down to 1508 anyway) of
Menteith of Kerse. Any additional documentation, comment or
correction is welcome, as always.

Cheers,

John



1 Walter le Steward
----------------------------------------
Death: 1241[1]
Occ: seneschal and justiciar of Scotia
Father: Alan le Steward (-1204)

Spouse: B____ [possibly Bethoc]

Children: Alexander le Stewart (1214-1283)
John (-1249)
Walter (1219-<1296)


1.1 Walter le Steward
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 28 Apr 1296[7],[8],[1]
Birth: 1219[9]
Burial: Inchmahome priory, Menteith[10]
Occ: Earl of Mentieth

Earl of Menteith de jure uxoris
3rd son

' Walter le Senescallus ', one of the Regents of Scotland and
guardians of Alexander III, appointed 20 September 1255[11]

'Hugh de Abyrnethine', received grant of £ 20 lands in Aberfoyle,
Menteith from Isabella, (deprived) countess of Menteith, before
Jan 1261/2 [Red Book of Menteith I:37, II:213, citing grant in
Douglas charter chest[12] ]

' Waltero senescallo ', witness (together with Alexander Comyn,
earl of Buchan and justiciar of Scotia, Patrick, earl of Dunbar,
Aymer de Maxwell the chamberlain, and Hugh de Abernethy) to a
charter of King Alexander III granting a yearly market 'at the
feast of St. John the Baptist, lasting for fifteen following
days' to the Burgh of Ayr, dated at Traquair, 12 Dec 1261
[Chart. Ayr pp. 18-19, No. 11[13]]

he was recognized as Earl of Menteith after the 12 Dec 1261 charter,
but before 19 Jan 1261/2:
' Walterus Senescallus, comes de Menthet ' renewed and confirmed
a grant of the church of Kilcolmanel in Kintyre to the abbey of
Paisley on that date [Red Book of Menteith II:216, citing
Registrum Monasterii de Passelet, p. 121[12] ]

fought at the Battle of Largs, 1263[9]

witness to the marriage contract of Margaret of Scotland and
King Eric of Norway, dated Roxburgh, 25 July 1281 [Cowan p. 94[9] ]

'Walterus Senescallus comes de Menethe ', together with his
sons Alexander and John, entered into a bond with Robert de
Brus, Walter, earl of Menteith and others at Turnberry, 20
Sept 1286 'to adhere to the party of Richard de Burgh, earl
of Ulster and Sir Thomas de Clare ' [Red Book of Menteith
II: 219-220, citing Historical Docs. Scotland, i:22[12] ]

' Gauter de Menetehe ', one of the Earls of Scotland attending
the Parliament at Brigham, which confirmed the Treaty of
Salisbury with England, 14 Mar 1289/90 [Stevenson I:129-130,
No. XCII[14]]

supporter of Bruce the Competitor for the Scots crown, 1291
(Barrow p. 388)[7]:
'Walter, earl of Menteith', one of the auditors for the claim
of Bruce at Berwick, 2 June 1292 [Crawfurd p. 20[15] ]

' Meneteth (Meinteth), comes de, Walterus, (Wautier comte de
Meinteth). ' - swore allegiance to King Edward I at Berwick,
1291 [Ragman Roll[16] ]

' Terra Comitis de Menteth de Knapedal ', his lands in Knapdale
included in the Sheriffdom of Lorne under the ordinance of 1293
[Campbell p. 45[17]]

Spouse: Mary of Menteith
Death: bef 1286[12]
Father: Maelmure 'Og', Earl of Menteith (-1230)

Children: Alexander, Earl of Menteith (-ca1306)
Sir John (-ca1323)


1.1.1 Sir John de Menteith
----------------------------------------
Death: ca 1323
Occ: laird of Ruskie

of Ruskie

' Johannes ', together with his father and brother, entered
into a bond with Robert de Brus, Walter, earl of Menteith and
others at Turnberry, 20 Sept 1286 'to adhere to the party of
Richard de Burgh, earl of Ulster and Sir Thomas de Clare '
[Red Book of Menteith II: 219-220, citing Historical Docs.
Scotland, i:22[12] ]

fought against the English, and captured either at the siege
of Dunbar (1296) or the campaign leading up to the siege:
order dated at Canterbury, 6 June 1297:
' To the sheriff of Nottingham. Whereas the king lately
ordered Walter de Gousill, late sheriff of that county, to
cause Edmund Comyn of Kilbride, John de Meneteth, knights,
Michael Miggel, Walter de Bosevill, William Curry and Robert
de Lecheham, esquires, prisoners lately taken in the castle
of Dumbar in Scotland and in the conflict there and
imprisoned in Notingham castle, to have their wages, to wit
each knight 4d. a day, each squire 3d. a day and 3d. a day
for each of their keepers, until otherwise ordered: the
king orders the sheriff to cause the prisoners and their
keepers to have the wages aforesaid. '
[CCR (Edw. I, 1296-1302) IV:34[18]]

supporter of King Edward I of England in his claims over
Scotland: petitioner for the lands of the Earl of Lennox
[Barrow, p. 448[7]]
'Earl of Lennox' as designated by Edward I of England
captor of Sir William Wallace, 1305

record of his heraldic seal, dated ca. 1305:
' MENTEITH, Sir John, of Rusky, younger son of Walter Stewart,
fifth Earl of Menteith. This was probably the betrayer of
Wallace. He died c. A.D. 1325. A shield of arms: A fess
chequy with a label of five points in chief surmounted of a
bend charged with three [alerions]. Shield on the breast
of an eagle displayed with two heads. Legend (caps.):
SIGILL' IOHANNIS DE MENETET. Beaded borders.
Diam. 7/8 in. Laing, ii. 722. Record Off., c. 1305,
detached seal ll; Bain, ii. pl. i. fig. 11. Red Book
of Menteith, ii. 461, fig. 3. ' [Stevenson, II:503[19]]

received as returned loyal subject by Robert the Bruce -
attended the Scots Parliament at St. Andrews, March 1308/9
(Barrow p. 265)[7]

an envoy of King Robert, together with Sir Neil Campbell: had
a letter of safe conduct from King Edward II of England in
order to treat with Richard de Burgh, Earl of Ulster, August
1309 [Campbell, I:68[17]]

' Sir John de Menteith ', witness [ together with Malcolm,
Earl of Lennox, Sir Neil Campbell - "Testibus Domino
Bernardo Cancellario nostro . Malcolmo Comite de Leuenox .
Johanne de Meneteth et Nigello Cambel militibus "] to
charter of King Robert I to William, thane of Cawdor,
dated at 'Lochbren', 8 Aug 1310 [Cawdor, pp. 3-4[20]]

'John Menteith, tutor of the earldom of Menteith', Surety of
the Arbroath Declaration, 6 April 1320 (Barrow pp. 424-8)[7]

Spouse: NN

Children: Helen, m. Sir Colin Campbell
Joanna, m. lstly Malise, Earl of Strathearn,
2ndly John Campbell, Earl of Athol,
3rdly Maurice Murray,
4thly (as 2nd wife) William, Earl of Sutherland
Walter
Sir John, lord of Knapdale and Arran



1.1.1.1 Walter de Menteith
----------------------------------------
Occ: laird of Ruskie

laird of Ruskie[12]

' domino Waltero de Menetheth ', had a charter from his cousin
Murdoch, earl of Menteith for the lands of Thom and Lanarkynys
in Menteith, and fishing rights in the river Teith, ca. 1330
[Red Book of Menteith II:225-7[12]]

Children: Sir Alexander Menteith of Ruskie
John (-<1382)
Walter
Malcolm
William


1.1.1.1.1 John Menteith
----------------------------------------
Death: bef 22 Oct 1382[12],[21]

laird of Kerse (de jure uxoris)

Sheriff of Clackmannan:
' dominum Willelmum comitem de Sotheyrland, et dominam Johannam
comitissam, sponsam suam, comitissam, videlicet, de
Stratheryn ', granted certain lands to William Murray of
Tullibody - grant of ward by John de Menteith, her kinsman,
as sheriff of Clackmannan, 31 May 1352 [Red Book of Menteith
II:234, no. 25[12] ]

re: his wife:

' David II, by charter dated January 25, in the twenty-eighth
year of his reign (1357), restored Marjory and John to her
offices and estates, to be held by them and the heirs of their
marriage, whom failing, the lawful heirs of Marjory, in the
same way as John de Strevylyn, her father, held the same.
' King Robert II confirmed a resignation made at Scone, in the
Parliament held there on October 22, 1382, by Marjory Stirling,
daughter and heiress of the late John de Stirling, to William
Monteith, her son and heir and Elizabeth, his spouse, of the
said offices and estates and also the tenantries of Ochiltree
and Pardovane, in the barony of West Kerse, reserving the
life rent of Marjory.' [Sterling, p. 29[21] ]

charter of confirmation by King David II:
‘12.- To John Monteith and Marjorie de Striveling, daughter to John
Stirling, vic. de Clackmannan et dominum de Cars et de Striveling
et Aluethe, of the said lands, by resignation of his said spouse in
the King’s hands, in favour of her spouse. ‘ [Robertson's Index,
p. 30, no. 12[22]]


Spouse: Mary Stirling
Death: aft 22 Oct 1382[21]
Father: Sir John Stirling of Kerse (-<1356)
Marr: bef 25 Jan 1356[12],[10]

Children: Sir William (<1361->1411)
NN (-<1382), m. Sir John Livingston of Callendar


1.1.1.1.1.1 Sir William Menteith
----------------------------------------
Birth: bef 22 Oct 1361[12]
Death: aft 16 May 1411[12]
Occ: laird of Kerse

laird of Kerse[10]

evidently b. before 22 Oct 1361, as he was evidently of age (i.e.
aged 21 or more) when he received lands of Kerse & c. on the
resignation of his mother on 22 Oct 1382:
' King Robert II confirmed a resignation made at Scone, in the
Parliament held there on October 22, 1382, by Marjory Stirling,
daughter and heiress of the late John de Stirling, to William
Monteith, her son and heir and Elizabeth, his spouse, of the
said offices and estates and also the tenantries of Ochiltree
and Pardovane, in the barony of West Kerse, reserving the
life rent of Marjory.' [Sterling, p. 29[21] ]

re: his wife:

"Elizabeth, spouse of William 'Monteith' " , named in resignation
by Marjory Stirling, mother of William at Scone, October 22,
1382 - Sterling, p. 29[21]

Fraser identified her as
' Elizabeth, daughter of Graham ' [Red Book of Menteith, I:461[12]]

~ she evidently was a dau. of Sir David de Graham and Helen of
Strathearn (m. bef 9 Oct 1353). Her great-grandson Sir William
Menteith had dispensation to marry Euphemia Graham, related to
him in the 4th and 4th degrees (i.e. 3rd cousins). She was a
great-granddaughter of Elizabeth Graham's brother, Sir Patrick
Graham).

Spouse: Elizabeth Graham
Father: Sir David de Graham (<1324->1373)
Mother: Helen of Strathearn
Marr: bef 22 Oct 1382[21]

Children: William (<1390-)


1.1.1.1.1.1.1 William Menteith
----------------------------------------
Birth: bef 16 May 1390[12]

laird of Kerse

he was evidently b. before 16 May 1390, as he was of age (i.e. age 21
or more) when he had a charter for the lands resigned by his father,
dated 16 May 1411: Fraser described him as William Menteith,
' Who had, on his father's resignation on 16th May 1411, a charter
from Robert, Duke of Albany, Regent of Scotland, of the baronies
of Wester Kerse and Alva. ' [Red Book of Menteith, I:461] [12]

Fraser conflated him with his son William Menteith (who m. Helen
Livingston) [Red Book of Menteith, I:461] [12]

Children: Sir William (->1448)


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Sir William Menteith
----------------------------------------
Death: aft 17 Dec 1448[19]
Occ: laird of Kerse

laird of Kerse[23],[10]

sheriff of Clackmannan

' He married Helen, a daughter of Sir Alexander Livingston of
Callendar, by whom he had issue. ' [Red Book of Menteith, I:461[12]]

record of his heraldic seal:
' MENTEITH, Sir William, knight, sheriff of Clackmannan.
A shield of arms couche: On a bend three buckles. Crest: On
a helmet with mantling and wreath, a swan with wings elevated.
Legend (l.c.): ..... Diam. 15/16 in.
Mar Ch., 17 Dec. 1448, p. 3. 10 - Cast. ' [Stevenson, II:504[19]]


Spouse: Helen Livingston
Father: Sir Alexander Livingston of Callendar(-<1451)
Mother: NN Dundas

Children: Elizabeth
Sir William
Archibald
Alexander
John


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Elizabeth Menteith
----------------------------------------

Spouse: John Bruce
Death: 1483, murdered (d.v.p.)[23],[24]
Father: Alexander Bruce (-<1487)
Mother: Janet

Children: Sir Robert Bruce of Airth (<1467-ca1519)
Thomas
James
Helen
Elizabeth


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2a Sir William Menteith*
----------------------------------------
Occ: laird of Kerse

laird of Kerse[25]

sheriff of Clackmannan

dispensation for his (2nd) marriage to Euphemia Graham:
' 1474, May 12. - Edinburgh. Dispensation by Patrick,
Archbishop of St. Andrew's and legate a latere, for the
marriage of William de Menteith, of the diocese of Dunblane,
and Euphemia Grahame, of the diocese of St. Andrew's, who
are related in the fourth and fourth degrees of consanguinity.
Dated in the third year of Pope Sixtus IV., and the tenth year
of his own consecration. ' [Mar MSS., p. 8[26]]

implicated in the murder of his brother-in-law, John Bruce
of Stanehouse, 1483 [Armstrong, pp. 12-13[23]]

' Jan. 28, 1488-9. - William Menteth of the Kerse, Archibald
of Menteth, his brother, Alex'r M.t for thaim, thair kyn,
and frendis on the ta parte, and Robert Broisse of Arthe,
Alexander, Lucas, and Robert Broisse, for thaim and brether,
kyne, and frendis one the tother parte, bound themselves to
abide by the Sentence of the Lordis of Council, tuiching the
making of amendis for the Slauchter of umquhile Johne, the
Broise of Arthe, and tuiching the making of amite, luf, and
tendirnes to be haid betuix the pairties, in tyme to come. '
[Pitcairn, p. 98[24]]

'William Menteth of the Cars, knt.', party to the concord with his
nephew Robert Bruce (and incl. his brother Archibald Menteith)
concerning the murder of Robert's father John Bruce (in 1483),
as appointed by the Lords of Council at Edinburgh, 18 Oct 1490
[Armstrong, pp. xi-xii[23] ]

he m. 1stly NN,
2ndly Euphemia Graham

Spouse: NN [1st wife]

Children: William Menteith of Kerse (dvp before 1508)



1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2b Sir William Menteith* (See above)
----------------------------------------

Spouse: Euphemia Graham [2nd wife]
Father: Malise Graham, Earl of Menteith (-<1490)
Mother: Unknown [Anne de Vere, or possibly Marion Campbell]
Marr: ca 1474


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.3 Archibald Menteith
----------------------------------------

implicated in the murder of his brother-in-law, John Bruce of
Stanehouse, 1483 [Armstrong, pp. 12-13[23]]

' Jan. 28, 1488-9. - William Menteth of the Kerse, Archibald
of Menteth, his brother, Alex'r M.t for thaim, thair kyn,
and frendis on the ta parte, and Robert Broisse of Arthe,
Alexander, Lucas, and Robert Broisse, for thaim and brether,
kyne, and frendis one the tother parte, bound themselves to
abide by the Sentence of the Lordis of Council, tuiching the
making of amendis for the Slauchter of umquhile Johne, the
Broise of Arthe, and tuiching the making of amite, luf, and
tendirnes to be haid betuix the pairties, in tyme to come. '
[Pitcairn, p. 98[24]]


1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.4 Alexander Menteith
----------------------------------------

cf. Pitcairn, p. 98[24]



1. Sir James Balfour Paul, ed., "The Scots Peerage," Edinburgh:
David Douglas, 1904-1914 (9 volumes).
2. William Fraser, ed., "Memoirs of the Maxwells of Pollok,"
Edinburgh, 1863, .pdf image files provided by Genealogy.com
www.genealogy.com.
3. "Banff charters, A.D. 1232-1703," London: Oxford University
Press, H. Milford, 1915, courtesy Genealogy.com.
4. Ebenezer Henderson, LL.D, "The Annals of Dunfermline and
Vicinity, from the Earliest Authentic Period to the Present
Time, A.D. 1069 - 1878," Glasgow: John Tweed, 1879, text
available courtesy of Electric Scotland,
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/dunfermline/
5. James Dennistoun, ed., "Cartularium Comitatus de Levenax,"
ab initio seculo decimi tertii usque at annum M.CCC.XCVIII.,
Edinburgh, 1833.
6. Sir Norman Lamont of Knockdow, Bart., F.S.A. (Scot.), "An
Inventory of Lamont Papers, 1231-1897," Presented to the
Scottish Record Society, Edinburgh: J. Skinner & Company,
Ltd., 1914.
7. G. W. S. Barrow, "Robert Bruce and the Community of the Realm
of Scotland," Edinburgh University Press, 1976 (2nd ed.).
8. Leo van de Pas, "Stewart Saga - One," Dec 12, 1998,
.
9. Samuel Cowan, "Three Celtic Earldoms : Atholl, Strathearn,
Menteith," Edinburgh: N. Macleod, 1909, .pdf image files
provided by Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com.
10. G. Harvey Johnston, "The Heraldry of the Stewarts,"
Edinburgh: W. & A.K. Johnston, 1906, .pdf image files
provided by Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com, p. 64,
Menteith.
11. G. E. Cokayne, "The Complete Peerage," 1910 - [microprint,
1982 (Alan Sutton) ], The Complete Peerage of England Scotland
Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom.
12. William Fraser, "The Red Book of Menteith," Edinburgh: 1880,
.pdf image files provided by Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com,
history and evidences concerning the Earls and Earldom of Mentieth.
13. "Charters of the Royal Burgh of Ayr," Edinburgh: printed
for The Ayr and Wigton Archaeological Association, 1883.
14. Joseph Stevenson, "Documents illustrative of the history of
Scotland from the death of King Alexander the Third to the
Accession of Robert Bruce," Edinburgh: H. M. General Register
House, 1870 (Vol. I), 1870 (Vol. II).
15. George Crawfurd, "The History of the Shire of Renfrew,"
Paisley: Printed and sold by Alex. Weir, 1782, (originally,
Edinburgh : Printed by James Watson, 1710), [also as cited
by Burke; and Paisley Herald article, F of Barrochan],
' containing a genealogical history of the royal house of
Stewart,..'.
16. "Clan Stirling,"
http://www.clanstirling.org/uploads/ragmanrolls.pdf
provides .pdf file of the names of those who swore
allegiance to Edward I of England at Berwick, 1296
(the 'Ragman Rolls').
17. Alastair Campbell of Airds, "A History of Clan Campbell,"
Edinburgh: Polygon [an imprint of Edinburgh University Press
Ltd.], 2000, Vol. I: From Origins to Flodden.
18. "Calendar of the Close Rolls," Edw I, vol. IV (1296-1302),
London: Printed for His Majesty's Stationery Office by Mackie
& Co., LD., 1906.
19. John Horne Stevenson, K.C. and Marguerite Wood, Ph.D.,
Scottish Heraldic Seals: Royal, Official, Ecclesiastical,
Collegiate, Burghal, Personal, Glasgow: printed by Robert
MacLehose & Coy., Limited at the University Press, 1940
(Vol. II).
20. John Frederick Vaughan Campbell Cawdor, "The Book of the
Thanes of Cawdor: a series of papers selected from the Charter
Room at Cawdor, 1236-1742," Edinburgh: T. Constable, Printer
to Her Majesty, for The Spalding Club, 1859, courtesy
Googlebooks.
21. Albert M. Sterling, "The Sterling Genealogy," New York:
Grafton Press, 1909, .pdf image files provided by
Genealogy.com www.genealogy.com.
22. William Robertson, Esq., " An index, drawn up about the
year 1629, of many records of charters, granted by the
different sovereigns of Scotland between the years 1309 and
1413,...," Edinburgh: Printed by Murray & Cochrane, 1798,
full title: An index, drawn up about the year 1629, of many
records of charters, granted by the different sovereigns of
Scotland between the years 1309 and 1413, most of which
records have been long missing., With an introduction,
giving a state, founded on authentic documents still preserved,
of the ancient records of Scotland, which were in that kingdom
in the year 1292., To which are subjoined, indexes of the
persons and places mentioned in those charters, alphabetically
arranged.
23. Major William Bruce Armstrong, "The Bruces of Airth and Their
Cadets," Edinburgh: privately printed, 1892.
24. Robert Pitcairn, Esq., "Criminal Trials in Scotland, From A.D.
M.CCCC.LXXXVIII to A.D. M.DC.XXIV," Vol. I, Part 1, Edinburgh:
William Tait (and London: Longman, Rees, Orme, Brown, Green,
and Longman), 1833.
25. Edwin Brockholst Livingston, "The Livingstons of Callendar and
their Principal Cadets: The history of an old Stirlingshire
family," Edinburgh: T. and A. Constable, 1920, .pdf images
provided by Genealogy.com, http://www.genealogy.com/ re:
the Livingstons of Kilsyth (cf. Chapter IX, THE LIVINGSTONS,
VISCOUNTS OF KILSYTH), pp. 210 et seq.
26. Historical Manuscripts Commission, "Report on the Manuscripts
of the Earl of Mar and Kellie: Preserved at Alloa House, N.B.,"
London: Printed for Her Majesty's Stationery Office, by Ben
Johnson and Company, York, 1904.



* John P. Ravilious


This thread: