Archiver > GEN-MEDIEVAL > 2007-08 > 1187810153

Subject: Re: The le Brun family of Bothel & Torpenhow in Cumberland
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:15:53 EDT


>From the last lines of your post, could you confirm that Margaret and Elena
are the coheirs of Sir Robert le Brun, Knt. (b: 1283, d: bef. 1342),
presumably Sir Robert's son, Richard dvp and sp.

>From the following the above Sir Robert had a brother Richard le Broun, but
I find no further mention of him

Reference: DMH 10/2/35
Quitclaim by Anthony de Lucy lord of Caldebeck to John bishop of Karliol of
all his right in the advowson of the church of Caldebeck; Creation dates: 6
January 1316/17
Scope and Content
Witnesses: John de Castre, sheriff of Cumberland, Richard of Kirkebride,
William of Mulecastre, Alexander of Bastenthweyt and Robert of Bampton, knights,
Robert le Broun, Richard le Broun, his brother, John of Orreton, John de
Boyvill, William of Osemundrelaw, William le Blount, At Karliol
Seal: Anthony de Lucy. Three luces, hauriant.
PRO; A2A; Cumbria Record Office, Carlisle Headquarters: Mounsey-Heysham

There are a number of deeds for which Robert le Brun and John of Orreton are
co-witnesses, an in fact they were fellow MPs for Cumberland in 1326/7

I have found the following Bruns returned to Parliament for Cumberland

A Ricardus le Brun (with Alexander de Bastenthueit represented the County of
Cumberland for the Parliament at Northampton on 13 October 1307. Robertus
le Brune and Johannes de Skelton for the Parliament of 1316; Alexander de
Bastenthweyt and Robertus le Broun at Westminster, 1320. Robertus le Brun and
Johnannes de Orreton at Westminster for 1326/7; Willielmus Broun and Thomas de
Fresington for Carlise City at Northampton 26 July 1338; (Checked to 1400)
(Members of Parliament 1213-1874; Ordered by The House of Commons, to be
Printed 1 March 1878)

In secondary sources I have seen it claimed that the Browne's Viscounts
Montague descend from an MP for Cumberland and I think it is shown as such in one
or more visitations, but has been shown to be erroneous. e. g:-

In the middle of the fourteenth century Anthony Browne (the younger son of
Robert Browne or le Broun, who represented Cumberland in Parliament) settled in
London and in time became a rich merchant. He was created a Knight of the
Bath at the coronation of Richard the Second, for he had lent a large sum of
money to the King and had been generous enough to cancel the bond. This
Anthony Browne left two sons, Sir Robert and Sir Stephen.
(Cowdray The History of a Great English House by Mrs. Charles Roundell 1884.
p 11)


In a message dated 18/08/2007 21:29:01 GMT Standard Time,

In closing, would anyone have other source documentation which may help
confirm or reject the placement of the said unknown Patric(k) Bruns and/or
Richard (le) Brun(e) within this family?

Through the last le Brun co-heiress, Margaret and Elena, this le Brun family
would be, I believe, ancestors of the Curwens of Workington, and Haringtons
of Farleton.


Timothy J. Cartmell

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