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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2002-09 > 1030989925


From: "Annie, The WritingTeacher" <>
Subject: [DNA] Two Paleolithic Y groups in Europe Before the Third/Neolithic
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 11:05:27 -0700


Interestingly, the article at www.sciencemag.org, Nov. 10, 2000 "The Genetic
Legacy of Paleolithic Home Sapiens Sapiens in Extant Europeans: A Y
Chromosome Perspective," reports that around 70 % of European men today are
descended from one Middle Eastern population that arrived 25,000 years ago
and went to Spain, largely represented by Eu 18, and another group,
descended from Eu19, who came from Central Asia, 30,000 years ago and
settled in the N. Balkans. They were called the Epi-Gravettian culture.

After the end of the LGM, last Ice Age, the Eu 19 group from Central Asia
left the Urals and migrated toward Central Europe, while the Eu 18 group of
Western Europeans from Spain/France migrated also toward Central Europe. The
two met near Czech....and mixed somewhat.

However, today, there's still an imaginary boundary line separating W.
European Eu 18 from Eastern European Eu19. Much later, in neolithic times,
the farmers from Anatolia/Middle East representing Eur 4, a9, M89 (Eu 10
from S. Iraq), and Eu 11 moved into Europe and settled in the Med and
Balkans mostly, but can be found all over Europe today in smaller numbers,
about 20% of the population of Europe today.

The article states Eu4 is distinct, markead by M35, but also from the Middle
East. Eu 9 and 10 share the same common ancestor in Iraq--Eu9, North, and Eu
10, South. Thus, the neolithic farmers settled in south and very little in
Central Europe. Actually Central Europe is populated by a mixture of Eu 18
from Spain and Eu 19 from Central Asia/Urals.
Sixty percent of Hungarian and 56% of Polish men have Eu 19.

Eighty-eight percent of Basque men have Eu 18, as do most of Italian and
French men. So there's this imaginary line separating W. from E. Europe with
two different groups, one from the Middle East that's 25,000 years old, and
another from Central Asia in E. Europe, that's 30,000 years old.
Interestingly, amost all European men, according to the Y chromosome study,
belong to only 10 lineages and most (80%) is of Upper Paleolithic origin
with expansions across Europe only after the end of the last Ice Age (LGM).
A second population from the N. Balkans expanded all over Europe, but they
still kept that imaginary line separating East from West. They were called
the Epi-Gravettian population.

It's almost as if a giant 30,000 year-old wall kept E. European men out of
W. Europe and vice versa. There are more Y chromo "clans" than there are
female mtDNA haplogroups. This is either because the Y mutates faster and
replaces itself with new types, or....there were more women taken as
"brides" during the Ice Ages, to Europe, or more men succombed to hunting
accidents or fighting, and more women survived, or at least the mtDNA
survived to outnumber the Y chromo clans.

What I don't understand is that there is supposed to be 18 Eves and 10 Adams
so to speaking, referring to mtDNA groups and Y chromo groups in the world,
but no all mtDNA groups have been found to date.

I'm sure in parts of Asia there are more mtDNA groups to be discovered,
except, according to Macaulay's tables, we've run throught he alphabet in
mtDNA types from A to Z. What's next--numbers? Just like there are ancient
mtDNA types that never survived to the present and don't fit into the A to Z
tables, there probably are more we haven't found yet, people who don't fit
into the existing databases. Maybe they're in the Pacific Islands, Asia, the
Amazon rainforest, India, Australia, or elsewhere.

In any case, does anyone know why mtDNA is said to be older than Y
chromosomes? If mtDNA originated 170,000 years ago, and Y chromosomes
originated only 60,000 years ago, what about all those people 80,000 years
ago who left Africa for Yemen via the Southern route? (I believe the N.
route was closed as anything N. of Ethiopia was a desert during that Ice Age
then. So the only route was Yemen to India to Malaysia.)

Any interesting articles on this around?

Anne
http://annehart.tripod.com





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