Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1067794554

From: Mike Humphrey <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b, Surnames, and Ancient Origins
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:35:54 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <>

David ...

Thanks for your excellent summary (& to Alan for his helpful pointer to the
Domesday book.

My working hypothesis is closely analogous with yours - I'm researching the origins,
migration paths & timelines for my I* haplogroup. And I'm assuming for now, but
willing to change my "model" if/when new & reliable information arrives, that it's
likely Denmark (tho not exclsively) where my pre-Norman ancestors lived.

There's solid historical evidence regarding my surname (including the
Domesday book), so I've been fortunate to have had that Norman/Scandinavian
"foundation" since I started doing genealogical research.

My 1-step matches in FTDNA are mostly in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Russia,
& Finland.

Yes, I'm one of (likely) many readers of this list who have used the available
research papers and growing databases to find our way to our ancestors.

Mike ...

--- David Faux <> wrote:
> Hello all:

The surname is Norman (meaning falcon in old Norman);
> and my grandfather maintained that we were of Norman descent (i.e., via oral
> tradition). None of this offers anything other than a starting point, so it is to the
> DNA results that I must turn to seek confirmation or to refute this hypothesis.
. . . However, the
> Haplogroup database at FTDNA is excellent for our purposes (ancient lineage) since the
> subjects were actually sampled in their country of origin (e.g., Denmark) and each
> individual has been given a haplogroup assignment. In my opinion this database is
> probably the most useful tool for anyone seeking "deep ancestry". The matches for my
> signature are France and Iceland (yet both have relatively small sample sizes relative
> to England where I have no matches). Looking at one step
> mutations, the largest number of matches are from France, Iceland, and Norway - all
> others are "singles". Now Iceland is interesting here in that the historical and DNA
> record indicate that about 80% of the male settlers were Scandanavian (primarily from
> Norway), and 20% were British. Since the documentary evidence shows my Faux ancestors
> in England from the 1300s (earlier records are not available) I am going to conclude
> that the route to England began in France in 1066 or thereabouts, and that prior to
> France my male line ancestors resided in Norway.
. . . , an
> exploration of Norwegian haplotypes showed that 18% are of my AMH 1.15+ signature.
> Another article uses markers that are seldom employed in research and reported that of
> a sample size of 72, 20 had a R1b haplotype - and of these 20, 10 had a 23/19 score on
> the CAII a/b markers. My scores are 23/19.
> My conclusion, tentative of course, is that my earliest Faux ancestor over - wintered
> in Southern Spain during the Last Glacial Maximum, then around 12,000 years ago ambled
> his way (well, his descendants did) toward the east, ending up a few thousand years ago
> in what is today Norway. One of his descendants was among the Vikings to settle in
> Normandy in the 900s (others went to Iceland in the late 800s), and again one of these
> descendants in turn came to England in 1066 (some remaining in France) to become the
> Norman ancestor of DKF.
> This is my working hypothesis, and subject to change in a heartbeat with convincing
> contrary evidence. I would hope that others would do as I have done (I am sure many of
> you have) and selectively use the databases and research articles to ascertain the
> ancient origins of your R1b Y-Chromosome.
> Good luck,
> David.
> Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA
> ==============================
> To join and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to:

Mike Humphrey Trombonist & HPC Computer Scientist
650 345-7108

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