GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1067794554
From: Mike Humphrey <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b, Surnames, and Ancient Origins
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:35:54 -0800 (PST)
Thanks for your excellent summary (& to Alan for his helpful pointer to the
My working hypothesis is closely analogous with yours - I'm researching the origins,
migration paths & timelines for my I* haplogroup. And I'm assuming for now, but
willing to change my "model" if/when new & reliable information arrives, that it's
likely Denmark (tho not exclsively) where my pre-Norman ancestors lived.
There's solid historical evidence regarding my surname (including the
Domesday book), so I've been fortunate to have had that Norman/Scandinavian
"foundation" since I started doing genealogical research.
My 1-step matches in FTDNA are mostly in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Russia,
Yes, I'm one of (likely) many readers of this list who have used the available
research papers and growing databases to find our way to our ancestors.
--- David Faux <> wrote:
> Hello all:
The surname is Norman (meaning falcon in old Norman);
> and my grandfather maintained that we were of Norman descent (i.e., via oral
> tradition). None of this offers anything other than a starting point, so it is to the
> DNA results that I must turn to seek confirmation or to refute this hypothesis.
. . . However, the
> Haplogroup database at FTDNA is excellent for our purposes (ancient lineage) since the
> subjects were actually sampled in their country of origin (e.g., Denmark) and each
> individual has been given a haplogroup assignment. In my opinion this database is
> probably the most useful tool for anyone seeking "deep ancestry". The matches for my
> signature are France and Iceland (yet both have relatively small sample sizes relative
> to England where I have no matches). Looking at one step
> mutations, the largest number of matches are from France, Iceland, and Norway - all
> others are "singles". Now Iceland is interesting here in that the historical and DNA
> record indicate that about 80% of the male settlers were Scandanavian (primarily from
> Norway), and 20% were British. Since the documentary evidence shows my Faux ancestors
> in England from the 1300s (earlier records are not available) I am going to conclude
> that the route to England began in France in 1066 or thereabouts, and that prior to
> France my male line ancestors resided in Norway.
. . . , an
> exploration of Norwegian haplotypes showed that 18% are of my AMH 1.15+ signature.
> Another article uses markers that are seldom employed in research and reported that of
> a sample size of 72, 20 had a R1b haplotype - and of these 20, 10 had a 23/19 score on
> the CAII a/b markers. My scores are 23/19.
> My conclusion, tentative of course, is that my earliest Faux ancestor over - wintered
> in Southern Spain during the Last Glacial Maximum, then around 12,000 years ago ambled
> his way (well, his descendants did) toward the east, ending up a few thousand years ago
> in what is today Norway. One of his descendants was among the Vikings to settle in
> Normandy in the 900s (others went to Iceland in the late 800s), and again one of these
> descendants in turn came to England in 1066 (some remaining in France) to become the
> Norman ancestor of DKF.
> This is my working hypothesis, and subject to change in a heartbeat with convincing
> contrary evidence. I would hope that others would do as I have done (I am sure many of
> you have) and selectively use the databases and research articles to ascertain the
> ancient origins of your R1b Y-Chromosome.
> Good luck,
> Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to:
Mike Humphrey Trombonist & HPC Computer Scientist
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|Re: [DNA] R1b, Surnames, and Ancient Origins by Mike Humphrey <>|