Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1068138029

From: "maurice sherman" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celtic and Atlantic Modal Cluster
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:00:31 -0800

Is it possible that all this discussion about Celtic/R1b or R1b/Celtic is
pointing to the idea that R1b as a genetic type that pre-dates the
Celtic/Halstatt or whatever culture?? This is just a thought that occurred
to me so I thought I'd toss it out there to see if it made sense to anyone
other than myself...


> [Original Message]
> From: David Faux <>
> To: <>
> Date: 11/6/2003 8:11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Celtic and Atlantic Modal Cluster
> Barra McCain <> wrote:
> >The need to deny that Celts are reflect a high percentage of
> >Rb1 is a thankless task. Celts, Rb1... one and the same. Sure there are
> >some additional factors. But don't try to negate the rather marvellous
> >advances we have made in the our understanding of early Europe.
> >Some things are thankfully simple.
> Oh dear, oh dear Mr. Tweedy, I really must ask the
question.......sorry......"have you been listening"? First John has said
very clearly that the haplogroup of which we speak is not Rb1 it is R1b.
Secondly John, Shane and I have been trying to make a very simple point,
and that is: Celtic = R1b (here is where we all agree); but the converse
is not true - R1b does not always equal Celtic (it could be Turkish). Me
wonders whether "poor old Mr. Tweedy" (as you have termed yourself), is
trying to "pull our chains a bit" - or perchance is it that you truly
believe what you say?
> In attempting to find some common ground, I do think that it is safe to
say that all R1b individuals descend from a handful of people who wintered
over in the South of Spain (as many of us R1b types do today) during the
Last Glacial Maximum - then once the Ice Age loosened its frosty grip, R1b
haplotypes spread far and wide - but that was 12,000 years ago Mr. Tweedy.
To assert that those who meandered in the direction of Turkey in the year
10,000 BC were Celtic is really stretching things - would you not agree?
> David F.
> Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA
> ==============================
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