Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1068893923

From: "Palden" <>
Subject: [DNA] DNA of the Isles
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:58:57 +1100

Hi all !

We know that it has been very difficult to sub-divide the Angle, Jute and Saxon DNA from that of the Danish Vikings, thus pointing to a common genesis.

Similarly if R1b is found in northern Invader populations similarly it shares a common Celtic or Proto-Celtic genesis.

In terms of R1b we are talking about waves of R1b migration to the Isles.

The problem facing researchers is that families of R1b may show the same STR markers due to similar mutations happening in very distantly related families, in comparison these Y-DNA lineages will look closer than they actually are.

For genealogical purposes and ones family history, this is a model I use for my research

1. Firstly consider any oral traditions of origins in light of DNA results.
2. Define the locality of last known ancestor's.
3. Compare DNA with those of the same name and those of the same area with the same Haplogroup.
4. Observe any commonly shared STR marker values with those whom you match the closest.
5. Develop a tree of those of the same name and those of other surnames from the area of last know ancestor's to discern degree of relatedness within a localised kinship group.
6. Observe the origin of names in the locality in reference to the recorded history of settlement and ethnic origins.

Once this is in hand one can make an informed estimate of most likely origins.

For example;

If a Williamson from Shetland is R1b and other Williamson's in Shetland are R1a, except for two. One of the Williamson's matches a Paulson from North west Sutherland and the other R1b Williamson is closely matched to a few Gunn's in Caithness.

Then we would say.

The R1a Williamson's are Vikings.
The R1b Williamson who matches a Polson from Sutherland is Celtic, being a Mackay of another name originally from Moray.
The R1b Williamson who matches a few Gunn's in Caithness, is mostly likely a Viking, being a branch of the Norse derived Clan Gunn under another name.

Similarly if you have a Smith from Yorkshire and they match more closely a group of McGow's of Galloway then your R1b Smith is Celtic, being most probably descended from the ancient Britons of the area whom spoke Brythonic Welsh. My next check would be to see if any matches could be found in Wales. If not then R1b could be from an older R1b population of Galloway.

If we had a Brown in New York whose ancestor came from Ulster Ireland he tests his DNA and he is R1b like other Browns but there is a little difference and he doesn't as closely match with the Brown's but with further comparison his DNA matches McDonnell's in Antrim, Ulster. Then your Brown is most likely Scots and a member of Clandonald of the Isles. As the McDonnell's were Scots who inherited the Earldom of Antrim in Ireland through marriage. Brown's were followers of the Macdonald's of the Isles. These Scots made seasonal trip's to Ireland and Scotland.

Similarly if you had a Price in England and his DNA matches a Price in Ireland then we would know he is originally a Ap'Rhys from Wales, and that's where we would now look for the Ap'Rhys ancient Clan connections with other Welsh family group's in regional Wales!

I hope this help's
All the best.
Grant South

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