Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1069087155

From: Mike Humphrey <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] RE Haplogroup I
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:39:15 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <>

Nicholas ...

Thanks for making this point. The origins of "I" that you describe below
are consistent also with Oppenheim's book, "The Real Eve". It's clarifying
to consider the wider context of deeper origins.

Many of the disagreements, or apparent disagreements, in our disussions
occur because some statements need to be qualifed by "where" & "when".
A lot of migration can occur in 16000 - 22000 years.

I'm looking forward to the day when there's enough data to subdivide "I"
and other large haplogroups.

Mike ...

--- Nicholas Penington <> wrote:
> I would like to add something to this discussion between David and Malcolm
> andothers about HG I, although I am a little late as I note that both
> David and Bill have touched on some of these points.
> I agree with parts of both arguments but I think both are missing an
> important point. HG I as defined by M170 probably originated in the
> Balkans 6 -12K ago in M89 positive folk who were already in Europe for
> about 10 K years (this appears to be conceded in various chapters by
> Underhill's group on their Stanford website), it then spread north. The
> point is that the haplotypes found in the Balkans are quite different from
> those found in Scandinavia see paper by Barac et al Eur. J. Hum. Genetics
> 11, 535 (2003).
> The 2.47 + haplotype (the I equivalent of the AMH) appears to have
> originated in Scandinavia and it spread out from here in every direction
> about 1200 years ago, with the Vikings and others, since then. This
> explains the high numbers of this haplotype in Norway and Sweden to this
> day. The presence of 2.47+ I think is what FTDNA really mean by
> Scandinavian origin. Thus I agree with Malcolm that it is strange that
> FTDNA appears to suggest that all HG Is have an origin in Scandinavia. Its
> just like R1b not all of them will have Celtic ancestors.
> Where your family came from centuries ago obviously has a bearing e.g.
> Scandinavia or a place settled by Scandinavians. I believe that in the
> near future a combination of SNPstr's will be able to subdivide HG I and
> predict with good probability whether ones ancestors are likely to have
> come from Scandinavia or not. This may also apply to HG R1a and maybe R1b.
> N.P.
> ==============================
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