Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1069092798

From: "Malcolm Dodd" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] RE Haplogroup I
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:13:18 -0000
In-Reply-To: <>

Hi Nicholas and others interested in haplogroup I
Bonnie rightly corrected my global statement and pointed out that not all I
males would inherit "Uralic eyes".I regret my loose use of the English
language and hope the correction is noted by everyone.
Through this discussion I have enquired further into all of the
sub-divisions of "I" and have found something interesting. Note that we
comprise less than 20% of the European population and our haplotypes are
generally fairly rare.

FTDNA says - <I1b This line was derived within Viking / Scandinavian
populations in northwest Europe and has since spread down into southern
Europe where it is present at low frequencies.>

The Semino study in Science Nov 2000 says that I1b2* and I1b2a or EU8
(M89-T, M170-C, M26-A)


Note also M26 and M161

I would appreciate the views of others on the spread of these two
haplotypes. (Note that they are not mine and I have not yet researched them)


-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholas Penington [mailto:]
Sent: segunda-feira, 17 de Novembro de 2003 15:35
Subject: [DNA] RE Haplogroup I

I would like to add something to this discussion between David and Malcolm
andothers about HG I, although I am a little late as I note that both
David and Bill have touched on some of these points.
I agree with parts of both arguments but I think both are missing an
important point. HG I as defined by M170 probably originated in the
Balkans 6 -12K ago in M89 positive folk who were already in Europe for
about 10 K years (this appears to be conceded in various chapters by
Underhill's group on their Stanford website), it then spread north. The
point is that the haplotypes found in the Balkans are quite different from
those found in Scandinavia see paper by Barac et al Eur. J. Hum. Genetics
11, 535 (2003).
The 2.47 + haplotype (the I equivalent of the AMH) appears to have
originated in Scandinavia and it spread out from here in every direction
about 1200 years ago, with the Vikings and others, since then. This
explains the high numbers of this haplotype in Norway and Sweden to this
day. The presence of 2.47+ I think is what FTDNA really mean by
Scandinavian origin. Thus I agree with Malcolm that it is strange that
FTDNA appears to suggest that all HG Is have an origin in Scandinavia. Its
just like R1b not all of them will have Celtic ancestors.
Where your family came from centuries ago obviously has a bearing e.g.
Scandinavia or a place settled by Scandinavians. I believe that in the
near future a combination of SNPstr's will be able to subdivide HG I and
predict with good probability whether ones ancestors are likely to have
come from Scandinavia or not. This may also apply to HG R1a and maybe R1b.

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