Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1069222495

From: OrinWells <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Marker DYS390 in World database
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:14:55 -0800
References: <><004a01c3ae58$5775f850$8a0aa8c0@William>
In-Reply-To: <004a01c3ae58$5775f850$8a0aa8c0@William>

At 08:48 PM 11/18/2003, Lowe DNA wrote:

>Have you determined if geographic location, or any other natural phenomenon,
>is causing the variation in the mutation rates on the same NRY DYS390 loci
>in the different branches of the Wells family.....???

Of the 220 samples that are involved in our study at this point, DYS390
works out as follows:

21 - 1 (one of the dreaded non-paternal events I am afraid)
22 - 38
23 - 80 (are they all Viking descendents?)
24 - 86
25 - 14
26 - 1 (this was a mutation from 25)

Of course it is not "the Wells family" as we have quite a number of
Haplotypes and still increasing. But, no, I have not discovered any
geographical explanation for why some mutate and others do not. As an
example, I am an exact DNA match with a cousin who still lives in
Connecticut within miles of the location our mutual ancestor settled in the
mid 1600s. My branch, on the other hand, moved to Massachusetts, New York,
Missouri and then California with a lot of stops along the way and with no
apparent impact on the DNA. In another family, not related to mine, the
two sons of a participant both differ from their father. No explanation so
far for this. One of the sons differed by two markers although one was a
dual peak on YGATA-A10 and it was not transmitted to the next generation -
for some reason a transient effect.

The family with the 500 year static DNA pattern has some descendents still
living in the UK with the pattern while the others settled in and have
scattered across the US. One in Pennsylvania where his branch of the
family has been for several generations, had a single two-step
mutation. Two others from two other branches of the family each had single
mutations on different markers. Unless we were able to test other
descendents from one of these branches it would be impossible to identify
the generation where the mutation occurred and thus get some idea if a
geographical area might be involved.

Given the multiple mutations with the single generation of the family with
the two sons differing from their father, I have to believe that sometimes
there may be some external environmental effects that lead to
mutations. Not simply random selection. But what it might be is totally
unclear to me at this point.

We have enough samples now (221 as of today) that it might be possible to
examine the mutations and see if there is some common thread
somewhere. But most of these families have spread all over the
US. Participants represent 36 states and the District of Columbia at this
point (not counting the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada) and most of
their ancestors were virtual gypsies.

>For example, if I am
>a Wells and move from an area where the mutation rate is lower to an area
>when the Well branches have higher mutation rates.....will my offspring have
>great mutation rates of DYS390....???

Insufficient information to draw a conclusion.

>Or is there some other totally unforeseen reason why these mutation rates
>are higher...???

Again, insufficient information to draw a conclusion.

Orin R. Wells
Wells Family Research Association
P. O. Box 5427
Kent, Washington 98064-5427
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