GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1069259675
From: David Faux <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] END of Thread for me re Viking ancestry
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:34:35 -0800 (PST)
Not to worry, others will carry the banner of this thread for wee bit longer.
A point or two of potential importance here. It makes little sense to combine Norwegian, Swedish and Finnish samples in the assumption that they represent the "Vikings" under consideration in this discussion. Today they are all classified as Scandanavians. However, I haven't seen any historical documentation that would indicate that more than a handful of the latter two ever saw the British Isles in that era. Furthermore, some Finns indeed went "a Viking", but not that many. The Swedish interests were almost entirely confined to the East (Estonia, Russia, Kiev in the Ukraine). And by the way, how did the Anglo - Saxons become associated with the Estonians? They are not from the same language grouping or geographical area nor are there, to the best of my awareness, any significant historical associations. For these reasons the figures provided by Mr. Curry do not appear to have validity.
I would also question whether it is instructive to focus on modal values for a single marker, known to mutate at a fairly frequent rate, and which differs by only one point in the two populations being considered. If there is some "population structure" it is at best weak - and cannot be used by an individual to use as evidence of Norse Viking or whatever ancestry.
Malcolm Dodd <> wrote:
Our excellent list administrator, Ann previously posted this
>William Curry, who had his Y chromosome tested at Oxford Ancestors, made
interesting observations about the distribution of "I" haplotypes at the
Y-STR database http://ystr.org. His haplotype (in Y-STR order 19; 389i;
390; 391; 392; 393) is 14-12-28-22-10-11-13.
-> . . haplotype with DYS390=23 (instead of 22).
He checked the distribution of these two haplotypes in "Anglo Saxon"
territory (Netherlands, Northern Germany, Denmark, and Estonia) and "Norse
territory (Norway, Sweden, and Finland). There were a total of
858 samples in the
Anglo Saxon territory, and 1164 in the Norse Viking territory.
The distribution appears to be lopsided -- in other words, the "22" and "23"
don't look random, but show some population structure.
Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA