Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2003-11 > 1069269205

From: Patrick Guinness <>
Subject: [DNA] Haplogroup R1b Ancestral Homeland
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:13:25 +0000

At 7:45 pm -0800 17/11/03, David Faux wrote:
>What is it that convinces you that our R1b ancestor(s) spoke a
>language akin to that spoken by the Basque people today? Is it your
>contention that those R1b's who would ultimately become Celtic or
>Proto-Celtic and other ethnic groups originated in this region and
>spread north and eastward? I guess I am wondering whether the
>"home" of the single M173 ancestor can be in any sense of the word
>pinpointed geographically if not ethnically?

At 3:21 pm -0500 18/11/03, wrote:
>Therefore, if we have any clue to the language(s) spoken by
>the original R1b folk, Basque is it. This sole clue could be a false
>lead, of course, but there's nothing else to go on.

At 2:31 pm -0800 18/11/03, David Faux wrote:
>your argument definitely has merit

Well, David, we don't know 100%. But if John and I are wrong,
we have to posit a 'wave' of later R1b farming settlers, speaking I-E
languages, who -

a) aligned themselves quite neatly along the Atlantic seaboard after
the Ice Age (perhaps being the first wave?).

b) in the Basque area, and perhaps also in Etruria (Italy), decided
to adopt their new wives' unique language, despite its cussedness. In
a male-dominated society, too...

c) killed every male hunter-gatherer they met.

These seem unlikely.

I am sure that plenty of your neighbours in CA would add that
a UFO most likely landed in northern Spain c.4528BC and taught Basque
to the R1b settlers there. Or that it was just beamed to them from
the Great Pyramid:) I can't wait for the TV series.

Occam's razor is good enough for


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