Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-06 > 1086372382

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Searching for Origins of British Isles I1a?
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:06:22 -0600
References: <> <>

Here's a mini-report on trying to get some clues as to origins of Scottish
I1a haplotypes. Two groups of "Hamilton" I1a haplotypes have the identical
marker repeats --- 14, 12, 28, 22, 10, 11, 13, (13, 14) --- for loci 19,
389i, 389ii, 390, 391, 392, 393, 385a,b

But this also happens to be Garvey's "most common" I1a from YSTR European
database and ranked by him as #4 of all haplotypes of all groups in the

Going to YHRD database, the "Hamilton" I1a haplotype shown above is the
most common haplotype of any type in Leiden, Netherlands, and it is the
second most common haplotype of any kind in Denmark. It does not show in
the most common 20 list for Norway or Sweden. Nor is it among the most
in Friesland. Its most common haplotype in Rostock, Germany, second most
common in Muenster, Germany, and third most common in Limburg, Netherlands
(again, out of 20 shown).

Tentative conclusion: these two "Hamilton" groups got their I1a from
Anglo-Saxons or Danish Vikings from the Danelaw --- not from Norse Vikings.

Yes, the Normans could have brought this haplotype to Britain and on to
Scotland; we need more
information about Norman haplotypes. I have the feeling that not that many
Normans brought their genes to Britain compared to Anglo-Saxons and Danish
Vikings. But on the other hand, almost everyone with Scottish lowland roots
believe they descend from the ruling class Normans who did get up there to
start dynasties and clans, so ..... it would be nice to discover some unique
from the Normans. This last point is simply a reflection that the larger
clan names show a variety of haplogroups and clusters which means to me that
unrelated males often took surnames of the powerful leaders they were
associated with; only some of the haplotypes originate with the "clan

My paternal line I1a, however, does not show up on Garvey's list of most
common I1a haplotypes for these 8 markers. But at YHRD database it matches
within 1 mutation high on the lists of most common haplotypes in East
Norway, Central Norway, and neighboring Swedish regions.

Tentative conclusion: my 1745 paternal ancestor from a farm about 10
kilometers from Oslo did not descend from Danish (clergy, military,
bureaucrat) immigrants to Oslo fjord during the centuries of Danish rule,
but more likely from indigenous Scandinavians from the peninsula's interior
(there is some evidence that coastal Norway was populated somewhat
differently than the
interior of the peninsula).


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