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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-06 > 1086468824


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: First Settlement of Norway?
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 14:53:44 -0600
References: <20040605200725.79287.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> <003b01c44b3b$64f22140$9be289d1@Ken1>


As early as 8000 BC early stone age people were living at Norway's most
northerly edge. This was the "komsa culture", and these folks stuck to the
coast and islands and lived off the sea. They had to, as the ice cap of
Scandinavia came right close to the ocean's edge. At one time this
northerly early stone age culture was thought to be different than another
coastal culture of SW Norway and Oslofjord. Today, the scholars think they
were basically the same.

But the route of these peoples into the coastal edge of Norway could have
been from the east in present-day north Russia --- or from the southern
approaches (Central Europe). The "Q" haplogroup (and maybe R1a) could have
come to Norway then. The Saami seem to have come much later, and the
Germanic peoples bringing the language (and I1a?) seem to have come to
Norway only in the first millenium before Christ.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Another English "Q"


> I wish I could read Norwegian better, but I am looking at my beautiful
copy
> of
> "Norsk historisk atlas", Figure 2, Skandinavia about 8000 B.C. It shows
> that the remaining ice cap over the Scandinavian peninsula left the west
and
> north coasts free of the ice all the way around to present day Russia's
> Arctic Sea coast. Figure 6 shows a bunch of archaelogical sites up at
Nord
> Cap of Norway (close to present-day border with Russia) which were "eldre
> steinalder" which I believe means "old stone
> age".
>
> Could not some of the earliest settlers of Norway as the Ice Cap receded
> have come DOWN the coast of Norway from the north , and originally from
the
> east and the area where peoples with significant Q are? These earliest
> immigrants need not have been pure Q but perhaps tribes with significant
Q.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Faux" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Another English "Q"
>
>
> > Doug et al.: Only Agnar Helgason's article on Iceland - and here they
> don't even recognize the haplotypes as Q probably because they did not
> suspect it and did not test for it - just lumped the haplotypes into the
> most likely category.
> >
> > All the other information I have is from private databases from Norway,
> Orkney, Shetland (other than my own), and Iceland. Perhaps the most
> diagnostic marker is DYS385a/b - for which very high values are seen in
all
> Q. I am hoping that a couple more Shetland Q turn up in the samples which
> are still in the mail or at the lab.
> >
> > Clearly we want to be able to pinpoint the area(s) in Norway which
appear
> to have spawned these Viking signatures. Whether they originated in the
> east (Asia) or the west (North America) is not entirely clear at the
moment
> but if it is the former, where are the Q in neighbouring counties such as
> Denmark, Sweden, Finland etc.? We should be able to spot a genetic trail
> marking the migration unless we have an extreme case where an entire
tribal
> unit moved to the coastal areas of Norway, and could go no further, so
> remained in a few isolated fjords until the Norse expansion circa 800AD,
by
> which time they were likely indistinguishable from their R1a etc.
> neighbours.
> >
> > David.
> >
> > Doug McDonald <> wrote:
> >
> > Are there published reports on Q in Scandinavia and
> > northern Scotland? If not, can you fill us in?
> >
> > Doug McDonald
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dr. David K. Faux, P.O. Box 192, Seal Beach, CA, 90740, USA
> >
> >
> > www.davidkfaux.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
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>



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