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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2004-12 > 1102708888


From: "Daniel Jenkins" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R* haplogroup
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:01:28 -0500
In-Reply-To: <d.393ad055.2eeb3a0e@aol.com>


Mike,

Could you let me know the date of the thread as I would like to view it.
Do I have it correct that your York ancestors were Norse and Norman and does
the Norse predate the Norman As I think it would have to . The Norse stock
is probably of the same stock that split into the various Viking , Jute ,
Frisian, Angle- Saxon, and the other Howard Johnson 28 flavors. Normans
being offshoot of the same. I wonder about the Norse settlements in York in
5 th century , they would be in the middle of the fleeing Britons out of
Sussex and Kent. Could you fill me in more about that. I have a 12 marker
match with a Slocombe of Somerset. Again maybe another connection to the
Norse? Last 2 , 12 marker matches are with Lithuanians. Which again points
me to the Frisians. Since all 5 matches are at the 12 marker match, can it
be determined if the common ancester is about 60 or so generations ago. I'm
not good at the math of this stuff.
Thanks .

Dan Jenkins

>From:
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [DNA] R* haplogroup
>Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:42:38 EST
>
>Dan ...
>
>There were apparently many opportunities for Norse to settle in England
>prior
>to 1066 with William. Mark McDonald posted a good summary of pre-1066
>battles
>in York where Norse were fighting with the Saxons. There are some religious
>figures in England with Norse-based names, as early as the 5th century, so
>there may have been some limited settlement, non-military, well before the
>Vikings
>(from the late 9th century), and William & the Normans in 1066.
>
>I'm I1a1 (Ken & I are still pursuing the solution to a Trace Genetics
>testing
>puzzle, but we're I1a1 for now), and my family lore from 11 generations ago
>says our southern England ancestors were Norman, and came from Norway. As
>described in a thread here several months ago, my I1a1 is in Ken's I1a1
>haplotype
>group H4, and we currently think it split from it's parent group in SW
>Norway,
>3000-4500 years ago (Rootsi's estimates), possibly more recently.
>
>At this point it's still possible that my I1a1 ancestors came to England
>directly from Norway, via other Scandinavian countries, Denmark and/or
>Germany.
>It's tempting to believe that the corroboration of English history, family
>lore,
>and I1a1 mean Norwegian & Norman, but the Norman phase remains murky. Maybe
>we'll have enough data some day to define the path, but for now it remains
>uncertain.
>
>Mike ...
>==========================================================
>
>In a message dated 12/10/2004 2:59:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> writes:
>Mike,
>
>Those Normans confused everybody, not only are they of the same stock as
>the
>Scandinavians, but some of evryone else and furthermore brought with them
>various other mixed groups. I think this is what makes the English DNA so
>complicated and hard to pin down. Many Flemish mercenaries and weavers were
>brought into Southern , England to create a buffer zone and keep the native
>Britons[Welsh] enclosed in Wales. Until I get the absolute final results
>for
>my SNP to detrmine my exact haplotype, I won't know if my first forebear
>in
>England came with Jutes , Saxons , or Normans. The only provable data I
>have
>is that the family was in England no later than 1200s, and was in Kent by
>1500s where it stayed until my immigrant ancestor came to Scituate , Ma.
>1634. He had a brother Henry , of which I cannot find any info. Trying to
>locate a Kentish Jenkins through Kent Family History Society , to test DNA.
>I have no match whatsoever with any other Jenkins in our group.As you say,
>a
>lot of R1,R1a, R1a1 data points to Norway, and as I have a exact match with
>a Mr. Schoolcraft whose line goes back to the Wirral Peninsula and possibly
>either a Norse or Danish ancestor , it is somewhat confusing. If I turn out
>to be of Norse ancestry, I would wonder how a Norseman got into Kent
>between
>1260 and 1488. 1488 being the year of the birth of my most likely Jenkyn
>ancestor at Folkstone , Kent. Will look forward to seeing your chart.
>
>Dan Jenkins
>
>
>==============================
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>



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