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Subject: Re: [DNA] Halotype Analysis Cautions (and Some SNP Considerations)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:54:29 +0000


Ken:

Actually there is no "verbal debate" embedded anywhere in my post. Plain and simply I have just read Manni's most recent article (and he references similar studies in France with similar results) and I have concerns especially about assumptions in relation to studies comparing English haplotypes to those of Friesland. Would you not agree that this is a very poor choice or regions upon which to base a comparison?

I was also thinking that while we wrestle about the Central European situation, perhaps, at least for me, the focus should be on SNPs (yes, of course I do have a vested interest in this matter). Ok, I will develop a comprehensive "I package" to assist (I spoke to those who might have a commercial interest in the same thing and they were ok with this - what the heck, competition is good anyway). In terms of R1b I am fascinated with the possibility that some of the SNPs seen so far in Iberian studies may also show up in Ireland (if some of the hypotheses I have heard on the List lately hold water) - or for that matter elsewhere in Europe thus lighting the way for understanding migration paths.

Anyway, it makes excellent sense for us SNP chasers to forge ahead full speed; and you haplotype explorers do the same - then compare notes. A robust understanding of the DNA tapestry of for example Europe is going to come from an investigation in both arenas.

David F.



-------------- Original message --------------

> David, I think your concerns about places of origin are premature and
> probably blown out of proportion.
>
> Holland was for centuries even before the industrial revolution one of the
> most commercial, densely populated, urban places in Europe. That folks
> moved from city to city in Holland and even in and out of Holland is true;
> but Holland is probably about the worse example of the actual demographics
> and migratory behavior of Europeans in general for the many centuries from
> prehistory and up to the industrial revolution. The study done in Holland
> even seems to count as "moving to a different region" people who might have
> been born in Utrecht and died in Amsterdam, or Leiden to Amersfort, etc.
> These are relatively petty rearrangements of people in the larger scheme of
> things.
>
> While agreeing with you that the question of "how much did Europeans moved
> around through time?" is a great question, I don't see sufficient evidence
> out there to pre-judge the answer to the question of how strongly people in
> various regions of Europe diffused geographically through time. That will
> be one of the things that the quality haplotype databases of the future will
> determine. There is no escaping careful counting of the haplotypes by
> region in order to find the best possible answer to the question. That kind
> of evidence will be more objective about what we can learn and what we can
> not than verbal debates about the issue.
>
> Ken


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