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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2005-10 > 1128864416


From: "Leo W. Little" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Another failure to get DYS463
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 06:26:56 -0700 (PDT)


Hi John and List,

I suspect our group (see http://www.geocities.com/null439/) all inherited our null439 SNP from a common ancestor who lived 1000 to 2000 years ago. He would have been mainstream R1b (likely R1b1c) and likely lived in the British Isles (at least his descendants did).

That means his descendants (at least living in the US) are more likely to have been tested by FTDNA than other haplogroups.

Our group has also been proactive in locating other null439s through dilligent public database searching and contacting of hundreds of prospective candidates to ask if FTDNA had e-mailed them about a null value for DYS439.

The process has been tedious, and I suspect that we've only uncovered about a third of the null439s in the FTDNA database, and it's taken us 18 months to do so.

BTW, my apologies to all those folks out there -- and to FTDNA -- who we've contacted and were NOT null439.

The search goes on.

Best Regards, Leo

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From:DisplayMail('&#97;&#108;&#117;&#109;&#46;&#109;&#105;&#116;&#46;&#101;&#100;&#117;','&#106;&#111;&#104;&#110;&#46;&#99;&#104;&#97;&#110;&#100;&#108;&#101;&#114;'); (John Chandler)
Subject: Re: [DNA] Another failure to get DYS463
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>()

That's about the expected level of the combined effect of all SNPs
striking the primer regions over the past 80,000 years, assuming a
mutation rate of 2x10^-8 and 30-40 bases making up the forward and
reverse primers combined. We would therefore expect to see the
same proportion of null439 in all other haplogroups as well if SNPs
are the main cause.

John Chandler

> For those of us with the null439 SNP, it's like getting a free SNP
> test with every STR test ("a prize in every box"). We're just
> fortunate the FTDNA primers work in our favor. Unfortunately for
> the DNA community, the null439 SNP only occurs in about one out
> 500 R1b males.


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