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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: Re: [DNA] DYS 435 O"Neill Iceland
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:32:02 -0700
References: <20060329053448.CDXC19070.omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com@DINOSAUR>


There are three North Irish R1b modal haplotypes with 25/11/14 at
390,391,392 plus 11-13 at 385 on the list!!!

Do you think these North Irish men, O'Neills or otherwise, went to Iceland
as free men?


Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "brian quinn" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [DNA] DYS 435 O"Neill Iceland


Ken, Hi



Had a thought that the Irish in Iceland might shed some light on whether
Hegemomic O"Neill or not . Here is Haplotype 1 from
paperhttp://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v67n3/001900/00190
0.web.pdf?erFrom=-9214055157101766665Guest



Estimating Scandinavian and Gaelic Ancestry in the Male Settlers

of Iceland

Agnar Helgason,1 Sigru´n SigurDardo´ttir,3 Jayne Nicholson,2 Bryan Sykes,2
Emmeline W. Hill,4

Daniel G. Bradley,4 Vidar Bosnes,5 Jeffery R. Gulcher,3 Ryk Ward,1 and Ka´ri
Stefa´nsson3



Icelandic Y-Chromosome Haplotypes

HAPLOGROUP

a DYS19 DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS388 DYS389I DYS389b DYS385

NO. OF

INDIVIDUALS

1 13 23 10 12 13 12 9 16 13*17 1

13 23 10 12 13 12 9 17 13*17 5

13 23 10 12 13 12 9 17 13*18 1

13 23 10 12 13 12 10 16 13*17 1

13 23 11 12 13 12 9 17 13*17 3

13 23 11 12 13 12 9 18 13*17 1

13 24 10 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 1

13 24 10 13 13 12 10 16 12*14 1

14 22 10 13 13 12 11 16 11*14 1

14 23 9 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 1

14 23 9 13 13 12 10 17 11*14 1

14 23 10 13 13 12 10 15 15*16 1

14 23 10 13 13 12 10 17 11*14 1

14 23 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*11 1

14 23 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 2

14 23 11 13 13 12 11 16 11*14 3

14 23 12 13 13 12 10 16 11*16 1

14 24 10 13 13 12 9 16 11*15 1

14 24 10 13 13 12 10 15 11*14 1

14 24 10 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 3

14 24 10 13 13 14 10 15 11*14 1

14 24 11 13 12 12 10 16 11*13 1

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 15 11*13 1

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 15 11*14 2

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 8

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*15 1

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 16 12*14 1

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*13 5

14 24 11 13 13 12 10 17 11*14 1

14 24 11 13 13 12 11 16 11*14 1

14 24 11 13 13 12 11 16 11*13 2

14 24 11 13 13 12 11 16 12*14 1

14 24 11 14 13 12 10 16 11*13 1

14 24 12 13 13 12 11 16 11*14 1

14 24 12 13 14 12 11 16 11*14 1

14 24 13 13 13 12 11 16 11*14 1

14 25 10 13 13 12 10 17 11*14 1

14 25 11 13 13 11 10 16 11*14 1

14 25 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 5

14 25 11 13 13 12 10 16 12*15 1

14 25 11 14 13 12 10 14 11*13 1

14 25 11 14 13 12 10 16 11*13 1

14 25 11 14 13 12 11 15 11*13 1

14 26 11 13 13 11 10 16 11*14 2

14 27 11 13 13 12 10 16 11*14 1

15 24 11 13 14 12 10 16 11*13 1

16 14 25 10 14 14 12 11 15 11*13 1

2 14 22 10 11 13 14 9 16 13*14 1

14 22 10 11 13 14 9 16 14*

DYS19 DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS388 DYS389I DYS389b DYS385



I guyess these Gaelic guys went to Iceland between 870- 980, gives a time
capture , maybe useful?

If you could find Ui Niall in Iceland would be interesting eh? Ragnall of
Dublin, Waterford, York was called Ri Lochlainne I wonder why? Maybe he
shipped a few clansmen off to Iceland?

quinny

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 9:14 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: [DNA] DYS 435



What I see in SMGF and Ysearch for the 12-15 (385) plus 13-30 (389) form of

24, 11 (390,391) R1b is occurrence at such a low rate it is simply

explainable as product of the random mutations at 385 and 389. The fact

that you see a bunch of these haplotypes, all with the surname O'Neill,

suggests to me a family haplotype form which then expanded primarily within

the family/clan and as the fortunes of the clan waxed and waned. How long

ago? I'd take all of the haplotypes you have and evaluate TMRCA for each

pair. That's a start.



There were obvious haplotypes before, but demographically they do not seem

to have been doing anything extraordinary so that we see lots of the

haplotype outside of the O'Neill population, at least that's what Ysearch

and SMGF show.



Ken



Ne----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed O'Neill" <>

To: <>

Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: [DNA] DYS 435





> Ken,

>

> You said that, because there are so few of this strong modal form in

> Ysearch or SMGF, you think the founder is relatively recent (first O'Neill


> or closer to present). Did you find any of the exact "modal" for this

> O'Neill group in your search? Or were there mutations to or away from the

> modal? And what does this mean in terms of who came before the founder?

> What I am trying to understand is what it means to be a founder because,

> obviously, there was someone before him.

>

> Ed

>

>

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