Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1145720620

From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] irish origins and myths
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <>


Yes, this is what stumps me too. Even if I accept
that R1b was the dominant Y chromosome group in the
British Isles dating back to at least the Mesolithic,
I still can't explain how the Celtic languages came to
be spoken there. Assuming the language was brought
there by a dominant minority (even as low as 5% of the
population), what would that dominant minority look
like in a genetic sense today? We can still see the
dominant minority who imposed the Turkish language in
Anatolia among the Turkish results today, though this
happened much later in time than Gaelic arrived in

And what if the Celtic languages was brought there by
the majority (ie, R1b)? What can we reconcile this
with the fact that it was supposedly present in the
British Isles in the Mesolithic (some researchers
arguing even further back in time, in the Paleolithic)
but that the Celtic languagues developed about 6000
YBP and that Proto-Celtic split about 3000 YBP, it
dates to much a later time period than when R1b
supposedly settled in places like Ireland. In other
words, linguistics have not been reconciled with
genetic theory.

Ellen Coffman

--- Andrew and Inge <> wrote:

> Hi Ellen
> I perhaps implied that language and genes normally
> move completely
> seperately, which would be wrong. They normally do
> have some connection.
> Slavic speakers in the Balkans shows signs of genes
> from other parts of
> Europe where Slavic is spoken, but are IIRC closer
> to their Balkan
> neighbours such as Roumanian and Albanian speakers.
> Likewise British
> genetics are quite similar to the Basque genetics,
> which is not even
> Indo-European.
> What would be a haplotype in Ireland or Britain that
> has been brought there
> from the Indo European homeland? Of course there are
> several we could
> propose but none of them are highly prevalent. I1a
> seems to have entered the
> area with Germanic languages, currently spoken
> today, but it is still less
> common in Britain than it's apparent homelands.
> ...and so on.
> Best Regards
> Andrew

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