Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-08 > 1156884164

From: "Dale E. Reddick" <>
Subject: Re: [GENEALOGY-DNA] [DNA] The Mystery of China's Celtic Mummies
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:45:50 -0400
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>

Hi Alan,

Yeah, I do tend to follow Mallory's writings rather closely. As I've
related to the list on several occasions, I consider his book "In Search
of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology and Myth" to still be the
de-facto text relating to this topic of the Tocharians and how they
-relate- to the rest of the I-E folks. If anyone knows how to explain
the Tocharians, then I think it has to be Mallory.

Here's a Wikipedia entry for J.P. Mallory:

* Books
o /In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology and
Myth./ London: Thames & Hudson, 1989.
o /The Archaeology of Ulster/ (with T.E. McNeill). Belfast, 1991.
o /Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture
(with D. Q. Adams). Fitzroy-Dearborn, London and Chicago. 1997.
o /The Tarim Mummies: Ancient China and the Mystery of the
Earliest Peoples from the West/ (with V.H. Mair
London: Thames and Hudson. 2000.
* Articles
o "The Homelands of the Indo-Europeans." /Archaeology and
Language/. eds. R. Blench and M. Spriggs. Vol I. London and
New York, Routledge, 93-121. 1997.
o "The Indo-European homeland problem: A matter of time," part
of "The Indo-Europeanization of Northern Europe". eds. K.
Jones-Bley and M. E. Huld. /Journal of Indo-European Studies
Monography/ No. 17, Washington, D.C., 1-22. 1993.
o "The Old Irish Chariot: and "Mír Curad". /Studies in Honor
of Calvert Watkins/, eds. J. Jasanoff, H. Melchert, L.
Oliver, Innsbruck. Innsbrucker Beitrage zur
Sprachwissenschaft. 451-464. 1998.


Alan R wrote:
> Totally agree Dale. If the term Indo-European had been
> substituted for 'Celts' it would have been a lot more
> correct. These Tocharian peoples probably developed
> into a distinct language group after moving from the
> area north of the Black and Caspian Seas (the
> preferred common Indo-European homeland) into the
> fairly distant Altai region in central Asia in the
> third Millennium BC before moving again after a long
> stay in Altai to the Tarim basin area of the mummies
> about 2000BC. The last time the common linguistic
> ancestors of the Tocharians and the Celts lived within
> any sort of contact distance was probably in the early
> third millennium BC in south Russian/ Ukraine area.
> Indeed, the Tocharians may have never lived in what we
> define as Europe today although they were clearly
> Indo-Europeans. So, although all Indo-Europeans are
> distantly related, to connect them specifically to
> Celts is totally wrong. They are just as connected to
> the Latin/ Italic, German etc branches. I think the
> use of tartan cloth is as a prop to the article is
> very dubious given the very rare and totally chance
> and random nature of the survival of ancient cloth on
> archaeological sites. Anyone interested in the
> mummies should read 'The Tarim Mummies' by J.P.
> Mallory (a very brilliant archaeologist)and V.H. Mair.
> Alan
> --- "Dale E. Reddick" <> wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>> I too have received this article via several lists
>> to which I'm subscribed.
>> There is a problem with this article. It has some
>> details -simply- wrong.
>> The two known dialects of the Tocharian language are
>> not any variant of
>> any Celtic language. All are Indo-European
>> languages, but Tocharian
>> isn't Celtic. The reporter who wrote this piece
>> just didn't investigate
>> things deeply enough. Or, over-interpreted things
>> or perhaps has some
>> sort of agenda. This is the sort of
>> over-generalization that needs to
>> be avoided. It'll get folks who don't know any
>> better coming to all
>> sorts of erroneous conclusions.
>> Dale E. Reddick
>> ________________________________
>> "The eastern Celts spoke a now-dead language called
>> Tocharian, which is
>> related to Celtic languages and part of the
>> Indo-European group. They
>> seem to have been a peaceful folk, as there are few
>> weapons among the
>> Cherchen find and there is little evidence of a
>> caste system."*/
>> /*________________________________
>> Bev Anderson wrote:
>>> The Mystery of China's Celtic Mummies
>>> This link and story was on the Celtic list I'm
>> on, and perhaps others who are interested in ancient
>> DNA-Celtic-China links might be interested.
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> Bev

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