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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-09 > 1158964486


From: "Lowe DNA" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:34:46 -0500
In-Reply-To: <NGEBIBEBDNALOFBCAFEBCEFMCHAA.lrayvick@cox.net>


So the next time you have a red-headed E3b in your surname project, you
might surmise their ancestors were from Northern Africa. Our Stephens
project has 7 E3b's; and, 6 of them with matches.

Is there a HAP-E3b group at FTDNA or any testing company. ?

Genetic evidence from Wikipedia...

While population genetics is a young science still full of controversy, in
general the genetic evidence appears to indicate that most northwest
Africans (whether they consider themselves Berber or Arab) are predominantly
of Berber origin, and that populations ancestral to the Berbers have been in
the area since the Upper Paleolithic era. The genetically predominant
ancestors of the Berbers appear to have come from East Africa, the Middle
East, or both - but the details of this remain unclear. However, significant
proportions of both the Berber and Arabized Berber gene pools derive from
more recent migration of various Italic, Semitic, Germanic, and sub-Saharan
African peoples, all of whom have left their genetic footprints in the
region.

The Y chromosome is passed exclusively through the paternal line. According
to Bosch et al. 2001, "the historical origins of the NW African Y-chromosome
pool may be summarized as follows: 75% NW African Upper Paleolithic (H35,
H36, and H38), 13% Neolithic (H58 and H71), 4% historic European gene flow
(group IX, H50, H52), and 8% recent sub-Saharan African (H22 and H28)". They
identify the "75% NW African Upper Paleolithic" component as "an Upper
Paleolithic colonization that probably had its origin in Eastern Africa."
The North-west African population's 75% Y chromosome genetic contribution
from East Africa contrasted with a 78% contribution to the Iberian
population from western Asia, suggests that the northern rim of the
Mediterranean with the Strait of Gibraltar acted as a strong, albeit
incomplete, barrier (Bosch et al, 2001).

The interpretation of the second most frequent "Neolithic" haplotype is
debated: Arredi et al. 2004, like Semino et al. 2000 and Bosch et al. 2001,
argue that the H71 haplogroup and North African Y-chromosomal diversity
indicate a Neolithic-era "demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic-speaking
pastoralists from the Middle East", while Nebel et al. 2002 argue that H71
rather reflects "recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes
in the first millennium of the Common Era." Bosch et al. also find little
genetic distinction between Arabic and Berber-speaking populations in North
Africa, which they take to support the interpretation of the Arabization and
Islamization of northwestern Africa, starting during the 7th century A.D.,
as cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement. Cruciani et al.
2004 note that the E-M81 haplogroup on the Y-chromosome correlates closely
with Berber populations.

The mtDNA, by contrast, is inherited only from the mother. According to
Macaulay et al. 1999, "one-third of Mozabite Berber mtDNAs have a Near
Eastern ancestry, probably having arrived in North Africa ~50,000 years ago,
and one-eighth have an origin in sub-Saharan Africa. Europe appears to be
the source of many of the remaining sequences, with the rest having arisen
either in Europe or in the Near East." [Maca-Meyer et al. 2003] yze the
"autochthonous North African lineage U6" in mtDNA, concluding that:

The most probable origin of the proto-U6 lineage was the Near East. Around
30,000 years ago it spread to North Africa where it represents a signature
of regional continuity. Subgroup U6a reflects the first African expansion
from the Maghrib returning to the east in Paleolithic times. Derivative
clade U6a1 signals a posterior movement from East Africa back to the Maghrib
and the Near East. This migration coincides with the probable Afroasiatic
linguistic expansion.
A genetic study by Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2004 argues concerning certain
exclusively North African haplotypes that "expansion of this group of
lineages took place around 10,500 years ago in North Africa, and spread to
neighbouring population", and apparently that a specific Northwestern
African haplotype, U6, probably originated in the Near East 30,000 years ago
but has not been highly preserved and accounts for 6-8% in southern Moroccan
Berbers, 18% in Kabyles and 28% in Mozabites. Rando et al. 1998 (as cited by
[1]) "detected female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa to NW
Africa" amounting to as much as 21.5% of the mtDNA sequences in a sample of
NW African populations; the amount varied from 82% (Touaregs) to 4%
(Rifains). This north-south gradient in the sub-Saharan contribution to the
gene pool is supported by Esteban et al. Nevertheless, individual Berber
communities display a considerably high mtDNA heterogeneity among them. The
Kesra of Tunisia, for example, display a much higher proportion of typical
sub-Saharan mtDNA haplotypes (49%, including 4.2% of M1 haplogroup) Cherni
L, et al.The North African patchy mtDNA landscape has no parallel in other
regions of the world.


-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:]On Behalf Of Ray Vick
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 5:03 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds


carpet

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:]On Behalf Of Dora Smith
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 2:52 PM
To: ;
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds


Um - what's a Berber?

Is that a kind of Russian? Or have they found out that Vikings weren't
heavy settlers of Russia either?

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowe DNA" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds


> Berbers have red hair...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:]On Behalf Of Havelock
> Vetinari
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 12:30 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
>
>
> I think you might be wrong about this:
>
> http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/5201709a.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul D.
>
> On 9/21/06, Dora Smith <> wrote:
>> The red hair common in "celtic" areas today was more likely brought there
> by
>> Vikings, who settled in Ireland
>
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