Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-09 > 1159107789

From: "Dora Smith" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] E3b and redheads
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:23:09 -0500
References: <BAY105-F1695AC6B06EFC4FF8B923FCC210@phx.gbl><00f001c6df1e$a4b36130$6401a8c0@Richard>

But how do we know what color hair they had?

I actually suspect that the people of eastern Europe had light skin and hair
during the ice age, because a bust of a female figure has been found in I
think Czechoslovakia that looks exactly, in facial structure, like a modern
Czechoslovakian. In fact, she could have passed for a sociology professor
I once worked for. Not we know what color hair the woman who modelled for
the bust had, but it is not unreasonable to suspect that if her face looked
that much like modern people in that area, so did her hair.

If anyone comes up with any evidence for blond hair, I'd like to know of it.

Actually the migratory pattern of blonde hair leads me to suspect that
that's some mutation that occurred in the Ukraine region, maybe as late as
2000 BC. Indo-Europeans who migrated eastward and southward from north of
the Black sea did not have that trait in the time when they migrated outward
from that region - though of course people in that area had it by 600 BC.
They otherwise looked characteristically Indo-European, and they were
lighter skinned than the peoples they conquered (and ruled as a minority
ruling class), which has always been a key part of their racial mythology
every place where they went and helped shape their cosmology; some of them
may even have had blue eyes, but there aren't no blonde people in Iran and
India; nor did blonde people rule the Hurrians in Syria and Palestine. In
1500 BC, people with that trait were migrating outward from the Ukrainian
region, and the I2b thing tells us that people who reached Scandinavia
migrated through or past that area to get there.

People with the I haplotype never migrated onto the steppes, did they? I
mean, there are blonde people in the Balkans at a later point in time, but
they appear to ahve come with the Indo-European peoples. They supplanted
people with dark skin and hair.

Dora Smith
Austin, TX

----- Original Message -----
From: "R. & G. Stevens" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] E3b and redheads

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Bird" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:11 PM
> Subject: [DNA] E3b and redheads
>> Red-headed and blond
>> Thracians were found in the Balkans at least since the 7th millenium B.C.
>> (Webber, "The Thracians.") They were descended from the E3b*
>> (undifferientieated M35) cluster, but the Balkan alpha cluster (M78 plus
>> V13) appears to represent a distinct branch of E3b.
> ___________________________________________________________________
> I think perhaps you should have prefaced your remarks on the Thracians
> with
> "some of them may have been," as in "some of them [the Thracians] may have
> been descended from the E3b* cluster."
> E3b is not the majority y-haplogroup anywhere in the Balkans. Its biggest
> Balkan presence is in Greece, but even there it is not a majority
> y-haplogroup. Ancient Thrace today has more R, I, and J than it does E3b.
> Some Thracian men may have been E3b. Maybe.
> Rich
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