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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-09 > 1159119513


From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Celts descended from Spanish fishermen, study finds
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:38:33 -0300
References: <a06110407c1387adc2f1f@[216.187.1.203]><004d01c6dddc$4321a5a0$640fa8c0@Villandra2><CB03CFEC-0EE8-4D4C-8568-9E068AA982C1@vizachero.com><007401c6dde1$7b2b6760$640fa8c0@Villandra2><003901c6df1b$61e69410$6401a8c0@Richard><003001c6dfe3$5671b2e0$640fa8c0@Villandra2><000601c6dfec$3ba87710$6401a8c0@Richard><002301c6dfef$3f46f330$6400a8c0@Ken1><006001c6dff1$f39f65e0$6401a8c0@Richard>


> I see more reason to see the R1bs as relatively late arrivals in Western
> Europe than to see them as the indigenous aborigines who somehow managed
> to
> outbreed all the various "elites" who managed to impose their language and
> culture on them while simultaneously failing to compete with them at
> producing sons.


Why not? We can see it in our own day. English is dominant
in many areas now replacing older native languages but the
native people are still there. In the last 100 years you have
gas powered vehicles replacing horse and buggies by the
native poplulations. Do you not find Pepsi, Coke, MacDonald's
in many parts of the world? The native population was not
wiped out by Americans. People adopt languages, fashions,
and technology from all over. We are not static people.
We bring in new for its advantages or to emulate a people
who are seen as more advanced or powerful.

Elites by their very definition are a minority. The majority
already has a breeding advantage by their sheer numbers.
One can't assume that the elites were somewhat incestuous.
Part of their offspring would actually feed the numbers of
the natives.

Regardless, the argument in favour of R1b is not just the
numbers but that as a percent of the population they are
clinal from west to east. If they originated in the
east then why are they strongest on the most remote parts
of western Europe. Recently it was reported that the
neanderthals seems to have died out last in the most
western part of Portugal where they found a refuge.
Surely your indigenous population would also be strong
in these most western points. What we are actually seeing
is that R1b dominates remote areas.

I think one has a long hill to climb to find support for
a phantom indigenous population of western Europe
that is not mainly R1b. I just don't see anything to support
this so far - even from an archaeological point of few.

Peter


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