Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-12 > 1165797826

From: "Mokurai" <>
Subject: [DNA] Ellen's paper
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 11:43:46 +1100
References: <>

Hi Ellen,

What in the world is aDNA please? This is the first time I have ever heard
of it. mtDNA mother orientated, YDNA father orientated...but aDNA?



Warren C. O. Power in Murtoa 3390, Australia (ex Kiwi).
----- Original Message -----
From: "ellen Levy" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ellen's paper

> Alan:
> It appears we agree on a number of issues of potential
> dispute. What I think needs to emphasized is that
> very diverse Mesolithic economies in the British Isles
> transition into a remarkably uniform Neolithic culture
> by approx. 5000 BP. Whether this was caused by a
> cultural diffusion process or by actual settlement in
> the region by Neolithic farmers is presently an
> answered question. The swiftness and homogeneity of
> the transition suggests to me the possibility of
> invasive newcomers, but that is of course my own
> personal opinion.
> The focus of my paper was ancient mtDNA lineages, as
> there is simply no aDNA evidence on Y haplogroups,
> leaving everything to speculation and circumstantial
> evidence. It creates an unfortunate and tremendous
> gap in the genetic prehistoric picture. I think an
> important acknowledgment, one currently supported by
> the aDNA mtDNA data, is that the high frequency of R1b
> currently found along the Atlantic fringe could be the
> result of either Neolithic or post-Neolithic movement
> of peoples and is not necessarily reflective of the
> survival of an indigenous Mesolithic lineage.
> To address one suggestion made earlier that the aDNA
> mtDNA lineages may represent isolated and odd vestiges
> of Neolithic lines that simply became swamped by the
> Mesolithic inhabitants of Europe, I think that is
> essentially the argument that Haak makes in his paper
> and that I attempt to address (and essentially reject)
> in my own paper. There is, for example, no evidence
> that N1a represents a Neolithic as opposed to an
> earlier Paleolithic lineage. The evidence from the
> Central Asia aDNA study suggests N1a was indeed
> widespread in both Europe and Central ASia, but has
> become much more limited in the post-Neolithic time
> period.
> Haplogroup J is also a regarded as a Neolithic
> lineage. It is is neither unusual nor was it swamped
> by earlier genetic inhabitants of Europe. However,
> its rather recent disappearance among groups like the
> Basque, along with the sudden rise of groups like V
> during the historic period, warrants further
> investigation.
> The picture presented in the paper hopefully motivates
> others to examine why certain haplogroups appear to
> have nearly disappeared from the Europe scene in only
> the last few thousand years, while others have clearly
> thrived and expanded in distribution. I think the
> evidence as presented supports the contention that
> these were not odd, limited Neolithic lines that
> simply became extinct as they became swamped by
> Mesolithic peoples, but rather some of these lines may
> represent Paleolithic mtDNA that has become extinct or
> Neolithic lineages that have become much more recently
> limited in frequency and distribution. I suggest
> possible mechanisms for this change that operate on a
> genetic level, but am receptive to hearing other
> suggestions.
> Ellen Coffman
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