Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-12 > 1166039155

From: "Aaron Hill" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ellen's Paper
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:45:55 +0000
In-Reply-To: <>

This is part of my objection. It's quite clear that using aDNA is just too
volatile and that the sample is just too low to form any opinion on the
larger population. I would like to see a study focus instead on these
particular individuals (like where they lived, etc.) rather than making
these grand statements.


From: (John Chandler)
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ellen's Paper
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:41:05 -0500 (EST)

Rich wrote:
> If the flaws in her paper are "fatal," then that means they are
> fatal to the main points of her argument

Regardless of what Aaron's objections are, I think it's safe to say
that David's objection (if true) is entirely fatal. Briefly, Ellen's
paper depends crucially on the finding that mtDNA haplogroup V is
common in present-day Basques, but absent in tests of ancient bones in
and around Basque country. David says that post-mortem damage to
mtDNA makes haplogroup V look like N1 instead. If this is true, and
if, in particular, the aDNA results in question show N1 as a common
result, then the absence of V is easily explained without invoking any
population replacement. So far, Ellen's response has not dealt with
David's assertion, unless her comment about "N1a" being found in the
aDNA samples should be taken as a refutation, and not a confirmation,
of the predicted appearance of "N1". Meanwhile, David has hedged by
saying that his assertion is only his opinion, and he'd like some
comment on it, and has not said whether post-mortem damage would
produce the appearance of N1a in particular.

It seems to me that a little more discussion of the details of
DNA damage and haplogroup assignments would be in order.

John Chandler

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