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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-12 > 1166304046


From: "Jackson Montgomery-Devoni" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Aryan, Arian, Arianism....
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:20:46 -0500
In-Reply-To: <3b2a446a0612161244k2f075afbhfadd0d7532406fcb@mail.gmail.com>


Sengupta also mentions that J2 may have had a very early presence in India.
Indian J2 is not accompanied by its ''loyal fellow-traveller'' E3b1 which is
tightly bound with the spread of haplogroup J in other parts of the world
such as Europe.

J2a though may have a more recent Aryan origin, because it is limited to
Northwest India and its's origin is bound with Anatolia, an area where,
according to some opinions Indo-European languages originated.

This is from the wikipedia article on haplogroup J.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29


Jackson

>From: "Sasson Margaliot" <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [DNA] Aryan, Arian, Arianism....
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:44:34 +0200
>
>On 12/15/06, ellen Levy <> wrote:
>
> > Can someone tell me how this ridiculous discussion
> > even made it onto the list?
>
>The word Aryan was mentioned, quite properly, in discussion of Asian
>R1a in the thread called "R1a in Mongolia".
>
>The question was genetic evidence pro or contra "the concept of
>movement of R1a from Central Asia to India". The subject is 100%
>appropriate to this List, and completelly unrelated to any "supremacy"
>ideas.
>
> > The issue that was being explored here was whether
> > geneticists had successfully linked the migrations of
> > the Indo-Aryans (a linguistic group) with the origins
> > and migrations of a genetic group, specifically R1a.
>
>Actually, also L and R1
>
> > Talk about a discussion that departed radically and
> > unnecessarily from it's beginnings!
>
>Exactly
>
> > Sasson, perhaps a helpful dose of sensitivity that you
> > appear to be lacking would greatly assist in this
> > discussion.
>
> > The "Aryan race" was explored as a
> > "hypothetical possibility"?
> > Yes, your completly
> > correct.
>
>This is exactly what the linguists who discovered the facts were doing.
>
> > Thus, I don't
> > believe your statement contributes any relevant
> > information to the discussion and unnecessarily
> > inflames sensitivities. We are discussing the issue
> > of R1a=Indo-Aryans (a linguistic grouping of peoples),
>
>I simply pointed out the fact that there was some confusion in this
>discussion between the three levels of linguistic grouping:
>
>1) Indo-European Family
>2) Indo-Iranian Group
>3) Indo-Aryan Sub-Group
>
>Proper discussion of R1a in India requires clear understanding of
>these distinctions
>
> > not the question of the Nazis idea of racial "Aryan"
> > supremacy or how it was "considered" by them.
>
>I was not talking about "Nazis" but about the 19th century LINGUISTS
>who pointed out similarity between German language and Indo-Aryan
>languages.
>
> > No one was talking about the concept of
> > Aryan racial supremacy until you posted about it. And
> > since the concept isn't "real" except in the minds of
> > dead Nazis and their contemporary counterparts, why
> > was more time on it?
>
>Actually, the field of Genetic Genealogy is already being used by
>present-days racists in various ways. It is one of primary functions
>of Genetic Genealogy community to keep thing as clear as possible,
>espessally in the case of the potentially sensitive Haplogroups (like
>R1a)
>
> > I suggest we return to the relevant discussion,
>
>The Sengupta 2006 clearly shows (as do some other recent studies) that
>R1a is very ancient in India. In fact, Sengupta 2006 mentions
>"Indo-Aryans from Central Asia" only in the context of J2a !!!
>
> > which
> > it whether there is sufficient genetic evidence to
> > link the origins and migrations of particular
> > haplogroup (R1a) to the movement of a particular
> > linguistic entity (Indo-Aryans).
>
>For this particular haplogroup (R1a) the apparent genetic evidence is
>being reconsidered. There are other possibilities, for example L and
>J2a.
>
>No one yet commented on the fact that L is very high in various
>"castal" populations
>and is very low in "tribal" populations. If the (branch of) Haplogroup
>L were not original Indo-Arians, then can the data be explaned?
>
>
>
>Sasson Margaliot
>
>-------------------------------
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