Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-04 > 1175446694

From: Michael Maddi <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] A New N. Euro R1b1c Haplotype Cluster ???
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:58:14 -0700 (PDT)

Rich Stevens wrote:

But I am wondering how much weight to attach to 11,11
at 385. As I asked in my last post, should we include
men with 11,14 but who share all or most of the
cluster's off-modal values at 390, 439, 458, 447, 449,
456, and 576?

Another thing, though: it does seem strange that so
many men seem to share those off-modal values AND an
apparent RecLoH at 385. After all, I believe only
about 2% of R1b1cs have 11,11 at 385, and certainly
not all of them share this cluster's other off-modal

My reply:

I understand exactly what you're asking here. I think
it might be useful, at least provisionally, to include
those with 385a-b=11-14 and who also share 5 or more
of the possible cluster's 7 off-modal values.

Your 385a-b=11-11 may very well represent a recLOH
from R1b's strongly modal 11-14 values. So there is no
telling when such a recLOH may have occurred in your
paternal line. If there is such a cluster, as you
think, then there are potentially other members of the
cluster whose paternal lines didn't have the recLOH at
385a-b. And those who match the possible cluster's
off-modal values and share 385a-b=11-11 with you may
have had independent recLOH's in their paternal lines
or may be a sub-cluster (of which you would be a
member) within the cluster which had a recLOH a
relatively long time ago.

There are a lot of possibilities here, so the best
thing is to look at all the haplotypes with those
possibilities in mind. Then come up with some sort of
idea of what has caused the haplotypes to reach the
point they have.

Mike Maddi

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