Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-05 > 1178333999

From: Gary Felix <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] SNP updates on Iberian S21 and M284
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:59:59 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <001001c78ea5$b199e770$6401a8c0@Richard>

If you are saying the Germanic tribes were without haplogroup I, I don't believe this to be correct. These tribes were from areas who's origins were significantly haplogroup I. The tribes that invaded Iberia came from the Balkans, Scandinavia or Eastern Europe.
Regarding I in Iberia I was saying it is found with little prevalence and what quantity is there is from ancient times.

At the moment I am thinking S21 is more likely from Frisia but more testing of S21 might help determine one way or the other.

It is evident that R1b expanded out of the area around the North sea. I have not heard of a realistic alternative.


"R. & G. Stevens" <> wrote:

Gary wrote:

> It would seem the Germanic tribes left relatively little ydna in Iberia or
> I believe we would see more haplogroup I there. Old I1b2 (prevalent in
> Sardina and Iberia) seems to predate the 5th century. Cavalli Sforza has
> said the same thing.

You are assuming that every ancient Germanic tribe had some I in it. Since
tribes were kinship units, that's not necessarily the case. Some may have
been predominantly I1a, others may have been predominantly R1b, which is
still the most frequent German y-haplogroup.

The fact that Sardinian I1b predates the 5th century in Iberia is good to
know, but I'm not sure how that relates to the presence of S21 there.

You may be right. S21 maybe uralt in Iberia, but it just as well may not.

One would have to conclusively show that R1b was there for the melting ice,
the flooding, and the food to even be relevant.


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