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From: "Alfred A. Aburto Jr." <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] The Basques and Scholarship
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:17:16 -0700
References: <BAY111-DAV56CC8ACBC7480A634E909B1360@phx.gbl><008f01c79ccb$1f6734a0$6400a8c0@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <008f01c79ccb$1f6734a0$6400a8c0@Ken1>


:-)
Ken, I'm Basque because there is an Aburto/Agurto ancestrial house in
Derio, just southeast of Bilboa, Basque Country. This is my home and my
origin as far as the Basques are concerned. The Aburto surname history
there goes back to 1400+ something, but it seems these people were there
even before that time. The Aburto surname belongs to the land there, not
to the person. The church records in Derio indicate for example "On the
farm Aburto lives Pablo". The Aburto surname means something like "place
of Kermes oaks" --- but I'm not totally convinced of that yet ... As a
J2a1* person though my ancestors hail from the Middle East. How they got
from the Middle East to Derio in Basque Country is a story I wish to
determine. There are several possibilities: Phoenicians, Jews, Romans,
Greeks, & North Africans...

The Basques it seems got along well with the Romans. The Romans gave
them special treatment ... I don't think Lawrence's post is entirely
correct, but there seems to be some truth there too ...
Al


> Ken Nordtvedt wrote:

>Aren't any males of Basque heritage going to stand up and defend themselves
>from this wild speculation about their ancestors, and which flies in the
>face of basic biological programming?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lawrence Mayka" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 4:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [DNA] The Basques and Scholarship
>
>
>
>
>>That is _exactly_ the implication of a matriarchy. All males, both adult
>>and children, serve no useful purpose except studship and are entirely
>>expendable.
>>
>>The article I cited--which advertised itself as pro-Basque--described
>>exactly this scenario as occurring in Roman times. Basque men were
>>drafted
>>away to die in far-off Roman provinces, while Basque women were totally
>>"passive" (the article's word, not mine) in the hands of Roman soldiers.
>>No
>>pesky rebellions here! This was apparently an attractive tradeoff for the
>>Basques: to accept the replacement of the male population, but retain the
>>language and culture (which remained in the hands of the matriarchy). The
>>loss of male children could have, but did not need to, involve a Herodian
>>mass murder of babies. Instead, heavy conscription into foreign service
>>over a period of several generations would have had an equivalent effect.
>>
>>Alternatively, one could argue that the total male replacement occurred
>>somewhat earlier, with the arrival of the Celts, and that Celtic
>>influence--as well as a progressive conversion to Christianity--prevented
>>the Romans from completing a second total male replacement in the region.
>>
>>Here is the article again:
>>
>>http://web.france.com/story/glossary/2003/09/basque
>>
>>


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