Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-08 > 1186351832

From: "Dora Smith" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Steppes R1b (was Gauls and Galacia in Turkey)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 17:10:32 -0500
References: <>


Has any European mtDNA been tested from before 8,000 BC? I'm not aware of
any such direct evidence that human genes actually existed in Europe longer
ago than Neolithic times.

I am actually wondering when the actual explosion in mtDNA haplogroup H
occurred. I'm not sure it was really right after the last ice age, even if
it did radiate initially from Spain. The Neolithic burial studies I'm
aware of find large quantities of haplogroups like one of the N clades that
are now rare in Europe. Disease or another adaptation could have given one
group that was mtDNA H and Y DNA R1b an advantage.

Dora Smith
Austin, TX

----- Original Message -----
From: "ellen Levy" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Steppes R1b (was Gauls and Galacia in Turkey)

> List:
> I don't believe there is any evidence that R1b was in
> Western Europe as long as 20,000 years ago. Is it
> possible? Yes, of course. But is there actual solid
> evidence or even strong circumstantial evidence, as
> opposed to pure speculation? No, I don't think so.
> And there is certainly no evidence tying any
> haplogroup to the cave paintings of Western Europe. I
> guess all you J's and I's can forget being
> participants, not to mention all the haplogroups that
> are either extinct or rare today in Europe, but may
> have been common or may have predominated 20,000 years
> ago. For all we know, haplogroup F may have painted
> those lovely cave paintings. Or a mixture of persons
> from various unknown haplogroups.

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