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From: Alan R <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Subject: Re: Blood of the Irish
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:05:44 +0000 (GMT)


Yes I would also like to know more about U5a*.  The way I look at it is the mt and autosomals must be very important in out make up otherwise all the high R1b area peoples would be identical. 
 
I thought the program was a bit silly when it went looking at old toothless weather-beaten character-faced basques and proclaimed surprise that they looked at old toothless weather-beaten character faced people from western Ireland.  Old toothless weather beaten rural people with character faces look the same everywhere from the Portugal to Russia and  from the Orkneys to Sicily lol!!  I also couldn't help rolling my eyes a bit when they went looking for Spanish looking folk in Connemara and commented  on a few darkish local people being a bit Spanish looking but made no comment on the class-full of fair haired/redhead, very fair/freckly skinned, mainly blue eyed kids they DNA tested from the Burren, Co.Clare, also a fairly remote bit of western Ireland. Now that is being selective! 
 
Anyway, as for L21, I think the real challenge is to see if the distribution can indicate its route of spread.  There is a definite cluster of L21 appearing in the SW Germany area (see Rich's map) and another in NW France (although they are not apparently generally from Brittany/Bretons).  These and the Irish and British L21 folk must be connected somehow.  I am fairly certain that the SW German cluster is original and possibly the point of origin.  The challenge is to find how these L21 areas connect. The best hope is a significant increase in the L21 tested people between the Rhine and the French north coasts and hopefully when plotted on a map it might suggest a route.  I am sticking to my predication that it originated on the west bank of the lower-mid Rhine after reaching the north of the middle Rhine the main body (not all) of L21 turned west or north-west into the rivers than lead into the Seine system and then as far west as Brittany.  It
would then be a short crossing to the isles from any part of the coast from Brittany to the Rhine.  Problem is very very few between the Middle Rhine and Brittany (most of the northern half of France) seem to have tested so no pattern can be seem.  We also seem to have very tested from Belgium. 
 
 
Alan
 
 
 
 
 
Elizabeth said
 
Now the Irish have a Burren Child to match the Cheddar Man. They said the
U5a* is found concentrated in the Basque country of Spain. Can someone
familiar with this mtDNA haplogroup make comment?

The yDNA of a Galway man was tested to see if he descended from men from the
Spanish Armada or the wine merchants - they told him his marker was much
older and matched a concentration in the Basque country. This is probably
straight out of the research Trinity did. It is, indeed, a great pity they
didn't have L21 to work with.

Elizabeth



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