Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2009-05 > 1243508287

From: Janet Crawford <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-L21
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:58:07 +0100
References: <><SNT105-W5E4A4849EDDF535A2D487A0500@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <SNT105-W5E4A4849EDDF535A2D487A0500@phx.gbl>

Susan asked:

"Why would you think there would not be as much L21* in Wales as there
is in Ireland?"

No, the opposite, Susan.
Susan, King/Bishop Cormac Mac Cuileannain wrote in his Glossary (in c.
900 AD) that the Irish held vast estates in Wales c. 325 AD. There was
much interaction and intermarriage between the "Eoganacht" dynasty in
Munster (and with Leinster) with the royal families of Wales and
Cornwall, and many religious pilgrims and scholars both directions.
St. David himself spent time in Munster. If Cormac speaks the truth,
and there is no reason why he did not, L21, if in Ireland, has to be
in Wales and Cornwall in some density.
There is also a strong connection between the "Eoganacht" dynasty and
with the Conaille ever since the Battle of Crinna in Co. Louth, and at
least the monastery of Dromiskin was populated by Munster monks. Since
the families controlled the monasteries, I would assume there were
inter-marriages as well. In fact, I am almost positive that Cormac's
father was of the Conaille as no other viable choices have appeared.


On 5/28/09, Susan Rosine <> wrote:
> Janet,
> I am the co-admin for the Wales_Cymru DNA project.
> So far it looks as though R-L21* will be the dominant haplogroup in Wales,
> but we do not have enough men in our project who have done deep clade
> testing to say this with absolute certainty.
> We can say that R1b1b2 overall (all subclades) is in the lead, with I1
> coming in second.
> For those R1b1b2 men who have done the deep clade test, most are L21*, very
> few R-P312* (upstream from L21) or R-M222 (downstream from L21). I believe
> that M222 is common in Ireland and Scotland, but I am no expert on those
> countries.
> Why would you think there would not be as much L21* in Wales as there is in
> Ireland?
> Here is our project site, you are welcome to bookmark it and watch as more
> R1b1b2 deep clade results come in.
> Susan
>> Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:10:11 +0100
>> From: Janet Crawford
>> Subject: [DNA] R-L21
>> To: genealogy-dna
>> I have two general questions about L21 please. First, since it is
>> found widely in Ireland, is it heavier in the north or south or prety
>> evenly distributed, if one can tell from the data so far? Second, if
>> it is found heavily in Ireland, it should also be found, perhaps not
>> quite as heavily, particularly in Cornwall and Wales. Is there any
>> evidence of this?
>> Janet
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