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From: Alan R <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] L21 origins (4 years after debut of S21/28..what dowenowknow)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:33:58 +0000 (GMT)


I kind of agree that the previous post was a little overly pessimistic.  For example, I think there are some things we do know about L21.  We know its common in the isles.  Despite a modest sample we know its got a strong representation along the Rhine axis from its mouth to the Alps.  Despite the usual very poor sample, it is proving to be quite common in France, especially the north-west (not just Brittany) and east so far.  If it wasn't common in those areas of France there is no way we would have found so many already from such a small sample.  There is a good scatter in Norway (which many are putting down to slavery but who knows).  There is a good enough sample to indicate a pattern that its relatively poorly represented compared to S116* and local subclades in Iberia while Vince V seems fairly convinced its absence in Italy is real. 
 
So, although far from a scientific sample, it is interesting that a macro/very broad brush pattern has apparently emerged which is very obvious if you look at the FTDNA L21 project map at an all-Europe scale (see link below). I think enough people have done L21 and other deep clade testing to give a generalised impression that L21 is a NW European clade mainly found north of the Alps and Pyrenees and west of the Elbe.  The weakest part of our knowledge is the eastern boundary.  Clearly there is a serious lack of testing in eastern Europe (east of the old 'Iron curtain').  I suspect L21 may extend a bit eastwards much like S28 but a lot more testing is needed in that area.   Even is western Europe, the detail is very sketchy. 
 
So, like S21, L21 has it value as a macro genealogical marker for those with no clear idea of ancestral origin in that it strongly weights likely origin to north-west Europe and makes an origin in the southern parts of Europe a lot less likely statistically.  Of course its probabilities not absolutes.  
 
Alan


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