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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2009-12 > 1260197538


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 and R-L21 on the European Continent
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 07:52:18 -0700
References: <59915.56775.qm@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <06F79C98-398C-4200-8D9C-5BA976ABD233@vizachero.com><ea3bd9560912061730y581da805v54dec4a73733efee@mail.gmail.com><006701ca76ef$d0ab50b0$7201f210$@org><003201ca76f3$ee2dcd30$6400a8c0@Ken1><91E2D25B95804417B98E786B9CB9E69B@bobPC>


The nuisance is that some people invent bogus "effective" rates. I don't
think average mutation rates vary in nature very much due to different
physical conditions, although there could be some of that. In any case, the
mutation behaviors of the different STRs are to be directly measured.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bootle" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 and R-L21 on the European Continent


> Ken,
>
> It is a real nuisance that
> mutations vary
> rates of mutation vary
> and average mutation rates vary.
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> To: <>; <>
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 and R-L21 on the European Continent
>
>
>> This mess is really not about technique; interclade as well as intraclade
>> variances are more or less known to all, albeit under various names. The
>> issue is the mutation rates employed to convert variances into
>> generations
>> of age estimates.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lawrence Mayka" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 8:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 and R-L21 on the European Continent
>>
>>
>>> It's unfortunate that the Zhivotovsky camp has not yet been confronted
>>> with
>>> Nordtvedt's interclade technique (of calculating lower and upper bounds
>>> on
>>> the age of a haplogroup), which removes any possible argument in favor
>>> of
>>> fudge factors.
>>>
>>>> From: [mailto:genealogy-dna-
>>>> ] On Behalf Of David Faux
>>>> Now Michael Hammer has come on board,
>>>> along with Peter Underhill some time ago, with Zhivotovsky in terms of
>>>> dating clade ages - so multiply by 3.6 - or not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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