Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2009-12 > 1260229911

From: "Anatole Klyosov" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R-U152 and R-L21 on the European Continent
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:51:51 -0500
References: <>

> From: "Lawrence Mayka" <>

> When M458 was announced, we were thus easily able to bracket its age. An
> interclade calculation between P vs. N types (both M458+) gave us roughly
> 3200 years as a lower bound, and an interclade calculation between P+N vs.
> K
> types (K is M458-) yielded roughly 4300 years as an upper bound--all using
> 67-marker haplotypes.

My comment:

In R-M458, there are two principal branches of haplotypes, named a
"Central-European branch" and a "Western Slavic branch", with TMRCAs of
2500+/-300 ybp and 2200+/-300 ybp, respectively (they are the same with 39-
and 21-marker haplotypes). With 67-marker haplotypes (for more extended
datasets) they are 2725+/-300 and 2575+/-300 ybp, respectively. The R-458
itself was formed 3900+/-300 ybp. Hence, it fits pretty well with you data,

Those figures were published in today's issue of the Proceedings of the
Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy, along with a detailed analysis of the
Underhill et al (2009) series of haplotypes. Free download:

In Russian, alas. Though, ancestral haplotypes and haplotype trees are

Anatole Klyosov

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