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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-06 > 1275932267


From: David Faux <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] I2b1a M284+ and Irish Exiles to Iberia
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:37:47 -0700
References: <007a01cb064f$bac64490$48692dae@Ken1>
In-Reply-To: <007a01cb064f$bac64490$48692dae@Ken1>


Ken,

If you are correct in linking the group of Isles M284 in Iberia to a
migration in recent historic times from Ireland, it would make sense that a
much larger contingent of the major haplogroups in Ireland should also be
found there - unless you are proposing the unlikely scenario of a selective
haplogroup migration. In other words since L21 comprises about 90% of Irish
Y chromosomes, would we not expect to see a much larger number of L21 (or
even its derivative M222) in that region of Iberia than M284? I don't think
that this is the case, but the admins of the L21 and Iberian Projects would
be in a better position to shed some light on the subject. Also, as Father
Oquendo has noted re Puerto Rico, we should also see morphed (spelling wise)
Irish surnames in the same area of Iberia as the M284 is found.

David K. Faux.

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Ken Nordtvedt <>wrote:

> I learned of some events which may explain the mystery of Iberian I2b1a -
> Isles M284+ haplotypes. Perhaps only those of you especially interested in
> this haplogroup know the first known example of it came from a dna sample
> from Iberia, and that since an unusual number of further Iberian M284+
> haplotypes have shown up from western Iberia. Otherwise it is pretty
> overwhelmingly from the British Isles --- hence the nickname "Isles" It
> divides into two sub-haplogroups, I2b1a1 which is overwhelmingly Scot, and
> I2b1a* which is spread more over Ireland, England, and Wales in addition to
> Scotland.
>
> Last night I heard about the Irish exiles to Iberia from the era from Henry
> VIII to end of Elizabeth's reign --- there was lots of feuding and worse
> going on during this period between the Isles and Spain, starting with a
> Spanish princess being Henry's first queen but later discarded.
> Thereafter for some time, Spain had several "Irish" regiments in their
> armies. These Irish exile families participated significantly in the
> Iberian colonizations of the New World as well as the rest of Iberian
> society. But I never found a link which actually quantified the size of the
> Irish exiles to Iberia.
>
> Have any of you studied this historical activity and could fill us in on
> the details, especially quantitative size of it?
>
> I'm thinking maybe this could be the source of the surprising (to me)
> number of I2b1a M284+ haplotypes which have popped up in western Iberia. It
> could very well be that families today who had a tradition of descendency
> from the Irish exiles might have gravitated toward participation in ydna
> tests, although the samples were gathered by academics doing sponsored
> studies which suggests some attempts were made to make them "random".
>
> I know roughly the "where" but not the quantity of this Irish exile, with
> the "several regiments" being my only clue.
>
>
>


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