GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1289416330
From: Mike W <>
Subject: [DNA] Fwd: First Neolithic Y-DNA published
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:12:10 -0600
I think Tim J. has a good point. One explanation is that R-L11 and its
subclades, i.e. R-U106(S21) and R-P312(S116), expanded in Europe after
the early Neolithic expansions, the Linear Pottery (LBK) and the
Impressed Wares Cultures.
Your opinion, "I would attribute R1b's remarkable success story in
Europe to some sort of natural selection", is a little harder to
totally grasp. There were significant populations in place in Europe
and an apparent mixing of peoples (as noted by differing mt DNA and Y
DNA patterns) by the time of R-L11's rapid expansion. What kind of
natural selection did you have in mind and why would it have such a
correlation with the Y Chromosome at this late period?
By the way, thank you for blog. It is excellent work and your research
is always tenacious.
-------- Dienekes Pontikos wrote:
I may be one of the remaining few who think that R1b and R1a did not
enter Europe in such a recent time frame by some sort of folk
migration. The Corded Ware culture was of European origin, even though
some have attempted to trace a Kurgan influence to its formation.
Anthropologically, though the Corded Ware people were much different
than the steppe zone of eastern Europe. Physical anthropology is not
in vogue, but there is simply no evidence for mass-scale population
replacement in Europe in an Eneolithic or Bronze Age time frame, and
no obvious outside population that might spawn the Corded Ware people.
If anything, I would attribute R1b's remarkable success story in
Europe to some sort of natural selection; alternatively it may be
linked to some coast-hugging Neolithic dispersal along the north
Mediterranean and Atlantic coast originating in the Aegean. ....
-------- Tim Janzen wrote:
> .. In my opinion it has previously been a
> reasonable hypothesis that R1b participated in the LBK Culture in the early
> Neolithic period. However, my most recent dates for the age of R-L11 and
> downstream R1b SNPs would suggest that L11 and its descendents are too young
> to have participated in the early Neolithic expansion into Europe.