Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1289517432

From: Mike W <>
Subject: [DNA] Fwd: 2010 studies shed light on R-M269's relatively recenteast towest migration
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:17:12 -0600
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In-Reply-To: <>

The R-L11 data has significant implications. I just checked the Myres
"A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in
Central and Western Europe" data for proportions of L11 in Europe.

Even including the Russia data, for Europe, R-L11 comes up as 84%
of all R-M343 (R1b) found. If you filter to Western Europe (from
Germany to the west), R-L11 is 96% of all R-M343 found.

>From that perspective, R-L11's age may be more important than M269's
(R1b1b2's). Tim Janzen's MRCA calculations for R-L11 are a range from
4500 to 3000 BC.

The Myres study has the locations of highest coalescence time
(essentially based on diversity, I think) for the two big subclades of
L11 as follows: U106 as Estonia and Poland, and P312 as Turkey. The
Vistula, Dnister and Dnieper River systems and Black Sea are in
between. Just west of the Black Sea is the lower Danube River valley
and just east is the Caucasus.

What was going on in this general area back in the late fourth and
third millenia BC? Whatever it was, it may have caused a population
explosion and westward expansion.

Regards, Mike

P.S. Tim, thanks for your estimates.

------- Tim Janzen wrote on Nov 8:

.... Below are some fresh calculations I did last month for the
approximate ages of the major SNPS downstream from M269.  These are
the best estimates I can give at this time using a 30 year generation
interval and a combination of YHRD and John Chandler's mutation rates:

M269:  6500-8500
L23:  6500-8000
L51:  5500-7000
L11:  5000-6500
U106: 4000-5500
P312: 4000-5500

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