Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1289600378

From: Dienekes Pontikos <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Fwd: Fwd: First Neolithic Y-DNA published
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 00:19:38 +0200
References: <><><><><><>
In-Reply-To: <>

A shallow time depth (inferred from modern populations, and consistent
with absence -so far- in earliest Europeans) coupled with a huge
demographic sizes, coupled with near-fixation in some populations,
raises selection questions for sure.

I think the anthropological and archaeological records are pretty
clear that there hasn't been massive population movements/replacements
in Western Europe in a Bronze Age time frame.

The two alternatives I consider most plausible is (i) a coastal
migration of R-M269, e.g., the rapid spread of farming in the

i.e., bypassing the regions for which there are currently aDNA data.

I actually consider this the strongest possibility, as R-M269 is very
well represented today in the Mediterranean and Atlantic coasts. But,
definitely, selection is a strong possibility, especially for the
youngest/most populous lineages within R-M269. We'll have to wait and
see if it turns up in Neolithic remains from the Mediterranean.

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:45 PM, Mike W <> wrote:
> I'm a curious, though, about your thoughts on a natural selection
> advantage for R-M269 per your earlier posting, "If anything, I would
> attribute R1b's remarkable success story in Europe to some sort of
> natural selection."  I would have thought technological or
> agricultural practices might be associated with paternal lineages.

Dienekes' Anthropology Blog:

This thread: