Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1289720955

From: Dienekes Pontikos <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] First Neolitic Y-DNA published
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 09:49:15 +0200
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In-Reply-To: <>

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:07 AM, <> wrote:
> Can you elaborate, please? Do you have crania of Upper Paleolitic R1b1? R1a1? Does anyone have? I can only refer you to my article "DNA Genealogy, craniometry, and the origin of Caucasioids", 2010, Januaty, pp. 1256-1309 (ibid).

You claimed that Caucasoids originated in the Altai based on your
dating of some Y-chromosome lineages to about 20,000-years ago.
That is clearly not consistent with their presence in Upper
Paleolithic Europe (e.g., Mladec is 31,000-years old, and clearly
Caucasoid in morphology).

Also, it is incorrect to equate Caucasoids with either R1b1 or R1a1.
While we can be fairly certain that R1b1 originated among Caucasoids,
it is incorrect that the place of origin of R1b1 has anything to do
with where Caucasoids originated, as most Caucasoids do not in fact
belong to this lineage.

>>It's also funny that these "Paleolithic Siberian Caucasoids" made
> barely an autosomal dent in their Mongoloid neighbors but seemingly
> expanded and replaced the (pre-Caucasoid?) population all the way to
> Ireland. Drang nach Westen, again.
> Is it an argument? Seriously? Please define "seemingly".

Yes, this is an argument.
R1b1 has hardly a presence in South Asia or East Asia or indeed in
many populations of Central Asia and Siberia. So, what kind of
plausible model can have it originate in the far eastern end of its
present distribution, cover thousands of miles westward, but not
diffuse even a little bit eastward or southward. Especially since at
the time when West Eurasian R1b1 coalesces, there is no evidence of
such a dramatic east-to-west movement of people, but rather the
opposite, the spread of Caucasoids from eastern Europe to Siberia.

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