Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1289841444

From: "Lancaster-Boon" <>
Subject: [DNA] First Neolitic Y-DNA published
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:17:24 +0100

Just a comment.

While I would postulate pretty much the same types of origins for R1a and
R1b as Dienekes, I do want to point out for the list's sake (it has been a
while since we had a good scientific debate) that Anatole and Dienekes are
in the below selected snippet showing a difference which revolves around the
same subject as the good recent posting of Ken about "Explaining Haplogroup

(It is one of those posts admins should keep a record of for explaining
things to participants.)

...Fact is that it has surprised us all over the years to realize how
dominated Y DNA diversity is by a small number of amazingly young lineages.
Or in other words it is interesting how quickly some die out. So Anatole
does have some sort of point in the below snippet. (Remember I focusing on
this snippet. This is not the whole discussion, I know.)

>From his blog I know Dienekes is also very conscious of the high extinction
rate, or dominance rate, and is amongst those who tend to mention the
liklihood of selection in order to explain it. I believe Ken on the other
hand is right to doubt that we need any such explanation.

Best Regards

Dienekes: > R1b1 has hardly a presence in South Asia or East Asia or indeed
in many populations of Central Asia and Siberia.

Klyosov: It is incorrect. Then, "presence" is important, but "age" is no
less important. Do you consider "age"? CAN you consider "age" (TMRCA)? CAN
you really analyze "age" of those populations? Well, if not, then what are
we talking about?

Dienekes: >So, what kind of plausible model can have it originate in the far
eastern end of its present distribution, cover thousands of miles westward,
but not diffuse even a little bit eastward or southward.

Klyosov: Again and again, it is incorrect. Have you analyzed the recent
paper by Zhong at all with hundreds of Asian haplotypes? Then, may I remind
you on population bottlenecks?

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