Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2010-11 > 1290022777

From: Al Aburto <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Dukes of Brabant - Neolithic J2
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:40:20 -0800
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In-Reply-To: <>

Hi Aaron Torres,
In my view he is definitely J2a. When I checked his haplotype with my
J2 database I would say he was J-M92 (a subclade of J-M67), but of
course the only way to be absolutely certain is to do a Deep Clade-J SNP
test. I think in your case I would recommend doing a Deep Clade-J test
before anything else --- that way you will be absolutely clear on the
haplogroup. Later upgrade to at least 37 markers to see if this person
might fit into a cluster of similar haplotypes under his haplogroup.

There isn't much recent published information on J2 unfortunately! :-(

This paper by Chiaroni, Underhill, & Cavalli-Sforza is good: ... be sure to
download the corrected supplementary file which has frequency maps of
J-M67 & J-M92 ...

If you do a SNP test on MDPCK, please let me know the result so I can
update/correct my database.
Happy Hunting!

> On 11/17/2010 11:06 AM, Aaron Salles Torres wrote:
> Thank you, Al and Bonnie. Yes, the reason I did not get more testing done was because the simple possibility of the Dukes of Brabant being J2 was shot down by some who research Brabant DNA. At the time, I thought they may be right and I doubted the recorded history. However, with the new information from the Brabant paper that just came out, I am more and more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the old, very well documented genealogy of the line I tested.
> With regards to the sample possibly being J2a4b (J-M67), I know I had little to work with but both my comparison to the Brabant results (who call it J2a2*, J-M67) and the matches on FT DNA point in that direction. I should know whether this is a fact or not once more testing is done. The most important thing I was trying to accomplish through the comparison was to make sure that MDPCK's line hadn't been isolated in Iberia for a long time. I have a sample that I manage (E1b1b1) that has a minimum of 33/67 (used to be 34/67) distance from any other sample on the ysearch database. No exact matches even when comparing only 12 markers. If that were the case with MDPCK when compared with the Brabant samples, that would not have been very encouraging. These preliminary results suggest that is not going to be the case.
> Right now, I see that J2 could have gotten to Brabant in many different ways before recent times in order to have been the true line of the Dukes of Brabant - whether it was through Neolithic migrations, or through the Romans, or even through other possible paths. The important thing to me is that it is still very possible that this is the Dukes' line. Hence, I will get more testing done based on the premise that the recorded genealogy is correct. After the results come out, it should be clearer whether or not this genealogical history stands.
> For now, I am just curious as to what is known about J2a4b specifically. I could not find much on it.
> Thanks,
> Aaron Torres

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